HandBrake and Palm thread

Discussion in 'Multimedia (Palm OS)' started by Varjak, Jul 16, 2008.

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  1. Varjak

    Varjak Mobile Deity

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    Do you download YouTube videos? I know you can embed them, but I didn't realize that one could download them to a hard drive and then convert them. I also thought someone here said that TCPMP didn't have an FLV plugin for Palm OS (only WinMob)?

    I don't get your "Ipod/change to .avi output Xvid, 2 pass Vid if time allows on the project and successful file to play on TX."

    I actually had my first successful encode today using Handbrake direct from a Video_TS file with no problems. No intermediary conversion, etc. (I started with a non-copy protected source).

    Here's the link:


    http://forum.handbrake.fr/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=7015&p=39578#p39578
     
  2. FireNWater

    FireNWater Mobile Deity

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    Congratulations Varjak! I was about to say Start Doing and Stop reading so much (one of your early posts in summary). Glad u finally dove in and started experimenting.

    "I don't get your "Ipod/change to .avi output Xvid, 2 pass Vid if time allows" was in answer to your question "Settings people experimented on HandBrake(HB). Hence, now that u start doing, you'll see these settings
    in the HB interface.

    It's a pre-loaded setting on the right side. The Video tab has a drop menu where one can switch over to Xvid instead of the Ipod's H.264. 2 pass is in the Vid tab below. I say if time allows since it takes longer to do 2 passes. So far, I have successful files without checking this on.
     
  3. FireNWater

    FireNWater Mobile Deity

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    Ahoy Captain Hook,
    This scrub here would appreciate being pointed to a more current FairUse tutorial. Your very help links on page 1 of this thread point to Version 2 for download and Version 1 for the "how to use." I did most valiantly attempt to follow the tute for version 1 and guess at how to get to the same options in V2.
    Unfortunately, my efforts continuously capsized at step 3 or 4. Totally sunk and cannot recover. So far have had as much success as righting a dinghy with my own flyweight as getting past -Building Chain-.(flub, tip, capsized)
    In hindsight, I was trying to build a chain on a .vob and on reviewing the tute, see that it's for an ISO chain.

    errerrr. How about some pointers for a single .vob file? Can FU encode just a .vob file by itself?
    Grovels in advance for being dimwitted and in much need of the captain's kindness.
     
  4. Hook

    Hook Professional Daydreamer

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    Sorry to mislead you into thinking that I actually know much about any of this. ;)

    I'm not very technical about all this, I use FU Wizard as a, well, wizard to encode DVDs and that's it. I have version 2 full, which has no advantage over the free version for my uses but they gave the full version away free briefly. For my uses I have not found any real differences with the tutorial. I don't even know what a .vob file is. :)

    I do know that the version 1 tutorial works just fine with FUW/ FUWLE version 2 if you are encoding DVDs and is very easy to use. The only program I've used to encode an already encoded file is VEMode. I don't know if it does .vob files, but you might give it a try.
     
  5. Varjak

    Varjak Mobile Deity

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    FNW,

    I'm glad that you've found some of my posts helpful.

    Sorry. I knew what you posted related to settings, but it was in such shorthand I couldn't quite decipher it. I'd looked at the GUI for some time before I started posting. It took me awhile to realize you meant (I think): Start with the iPod preset, use the XviD encoder, and output to an AVI file. What I still don't really get is that you suggest that this doesn't always result in a usable file. Then you describe doing something to convert the HB output in some way that I don't understand.

    I knew about the number of passes, because I'd read a ton of threads at HB.fr before jumping in. I'm surprised actually that you don't always use that setting. I've only done it that way (with turbo pass) because most threads say the result is bad without it. Turbo pass cuts down the first pass time significantly.

    You asked earlier about the FFMPEG plugin. It seems, from the HB activity log, that FFMPEG is actually what HB uses when MPEG4 is chosen as the encoder. I don't know if this means that TCPMP uses the FFMPEG plug in to play it (it seems odd that the MPEG4 plugin isn't used for that, and Raspa said the MPEG4 plugin plays the XviD encoded files). I always assumed that TCPMP uses the AVC plugin for H.264 video (although I haven't got that to work yet).

    By saying I had read alot, I was trying to be polite (and truthful) in hoping that someone would have been able to give me a head start on the settings. If I hadn't been fortunate enough to be using a short 10 minute source video, I'd have had to waste many hours in trial and error. As it was, I basically ended up doing that anyway, and still don't fully understand why some things work and some don't. It seems harder than it should be to get answers to some questions even here.

    By the way FNW, did you see my post about YouTube files? It would be helpful if you could describe how you download those (I thought they only streamed) and how you convert/manipulate them for TCPMP. I also wondered about the FLV plugin. I thought that someone here said that was only for Windows devices.

    Also FNW, what do you use to view the encoded files on your desktop? I know that some on HB have recommended VLC or something like that.
     
  6. Varjak

    Varjak Mobile Deity

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    Raspa,

    What is Filez? A third party file manager (like Windows Explorer file manager for Palm OS)?

    I've wondered why the plugins don't show up in the Applications info box in my LD. Is something like Filez the only way to see some of these programs on the LD?
     
  7. raspabalsa

    raspabalsa Brain stuck BogoMipping

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    Yes, Filez is a 3rd-party file manager. The "Applications" info box shows only certain files (I believe it shows those marked as executable). And yes, Filez or another 3rd-party file manager is the only way to see those files.
     
  8. Varjak

    Varjak Mobile Deity

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    I still can't get a good result using H.264.

    I tried another experimental encode trial. I used the H.264 and AAC encoders and dropped the bitrate to the one used by the iPhone preset (960 kbps). It still was choppy. Maybe the Palm LifeDrive and TX don't have enough processing power to handle H.264 well enough. One guy on HandBrake told me that H.264 gave a higher quality result than MPEG4 and XviD as well as a smaller file (which turned out to be true); but my player still can't seem to handle it. I'm not sure what I should try next.
     
  9. FireNWater

    FireNWater Mobile Deity

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    "Do you download YouTube videos?"

    Old school:
    If you use FireFox, this is an add on to use:
    http://www.downloadhelper.net/index.php

    Share/Freeware- donate to the cause if you like it.

    From your computer, google for Pazera to convert .flv to .avi for TCPMP.
    I listed everything else in earlier posts.

    I didn't answer cuz it was hard to post prior to the Brighthand system upgrade. This may not be what you're looking for because most of your other myriad posts (BH and rest of the web) are regarding streaming. Headcronie answered that fairly well and blew my socks off at with the changes in technology.:eek:

    Good luck and try not to pick anymore fights with Handbrake.:D
    Seriously, they don't control TCPMP and it's irrelevant to them how TCPMP works. Handbrake works for Ipod/Itouch mpeg4 and your mpeg4 files will run on those devices.
     
  10. raspabalsa

    raspabalsa Brain stuck BogoMipping

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    I'm reviving this thread because, thanks to Varjak's recommendations, I've started playing with Handbrake to encode MP4s mainly for viewing on PalmOS devices, in my TX in particular. I'd like to share some tests, results, and opinions, and to ask a few qustions (hope you're listening, Varjak).

    Up until now, I've been encoding in the AVI container, using XviD and MP3 codecs, but since MP4 is reputedly better (especially with H.264) I decided to run some tests to see how well the results look in my TX and computer.

    I selected for my tests a sequence from the movie "Alexander": the battle of Gaugamela. This is one of the fastest, most complex action sequences I can think of: hundreds of soldiers, horses, and chariots moving every which way, dust, smoke, panning scenes, wide shots, lots of moving objects (arrows, spears, etc). Lots of blood and gore only make the testing more fun :D

    I encoded several instances of this sequence, all of them using Handbrake, but changing the parameters used. I started with the iPhone & iPod Touch preset, and changed settings to suit my needs. To have an idea of quality vs file size, I decided to set Handbrake to produce files of the exact size in every instance. The clip is 00:26:23 long, so I decided to set handbrake to create a 140MB file, which, if encoding an AVI (XviD + Mp3), would correspond to 600 kbps video and 128kbps audio (meaning about 5.3 MB / min).

    All the videos have the same frame size 480x208, so playback on the TX didn't require zooming. Here are the file details:

    Clip 1: MP4 file with XviD video and AAC audio, 23.98 fps (original framerate)
    Clip 2: MP4 file with H.264 video and AAC audio, 23.98 fps (original framerate)
    Clip 3: AVI file with XviD video and MP3 audio, 23.98 fps (original framerate)
    Clip 4: MP4 file with H.264 video and AAC audio, 29.97 fps (increased framerate to test playback performance)

    The audio for the four clips uses 128 kbps bitrate, both with the AAC and MP3 codecs. All four clips were encoded in two passes, letting Handbrake choose video quality to produce desired file size (140MB). When encoding with H.264, I set Handbrake to use b-frames (this option was not available when using XviD). In all four clips I selected "None" in the "anamorphic" box. I don't yet know exactly what this means, but produced clips of the desired aspect ratio. Other options (detelecine, decomb, deinterlace, denoise, deblock) were left disabled, since I'm not yet familiar with some of them.

    The results on my computer were unmistakable. Playing with Nero Show Time (only player I have on my computer that plays H.264 and AAC), the MP4 with H.264 video looks better than the other two. The main improvement is that the square blocks common to the XviD codec are nowhere to be seen. Overall the image is much smoother. Pannings, zooms, and other fast motion look almost the same for both H.264 and XviD, except that the motions are smoother with H.264.

    The differences between the AVI (XviD) and the MP4 (XviD) videos are unnoticeable to my eyes, to the point that I couldn't tell one from the other when randomly switching between them. So, MP4 seems to yield better quality per MB only if you use the H.264 codec. If you use XviD to create an MP4, you'll get the same quality, at least for the settings I'm using.

    For the tests in my TX, I decided to play with the clock frequency to see how it affects playback. I keep my TX overclocked at all times to 416 MHz (with Warpspeed) and have CorePlayer and TCPMP set to run at 520 MHz. For these tests I used the TX's stock frequency (312 MHz), the LD's and T5's stock frequency (416 MHz), and the frequency my TX uses (520 MHz). I also configured CorePlayer's and TCPMP's options identically: color dithering, playback at 100% size, square pixels, high quality video, etc.

    Here is what I found:

    - Both clips using the XviD codec (Clip 1 and Clip 3) can be perfectly played by the TX with both CP and TCPMP, even at 312 MHz. Minimum benchmark was 123% and maximum went as high as 190%. Playback resulted in zero dropped frames in every test. This is no news, I think, but served as a reference.

    - At 312 MHz neither CorePlayer nor TCPMP can play Clip 2 (H.264 video @ 24 fps). The benchmark yielded an average of 78% (CP) and 87% (TCPMP) and framerates of 18.84 fps (CP) and 21.04 fps (TCPMP). Playback resulted in about 25% dropped frames for both players. Image looks choopy, audio is stuttery. Not a pleasant playback experience at all.

    - At 416 MHz both CP and TCPMP can more or less play Clip 2 (H.264 video @ 24 fps). Benchmark yielded 96% for CP and 101% for TCPMP. Playback reported 9% dropped frames for CP and 3% dropped frames for TCPMP. In both cases playback was mostly adequate, with a few parts where the choppiness returned. But overall it was ok.

    - 520 MHz is the minimum frequency for adequate playback in both CP and TCPMP for a H.264 video at this quality and 24 fps (Clip 2). Both benchmarks yielded about 110%, and playback resulted in zero dropped frames.

    - 520 MHz is barely enough for an H.264 video of this quality and 30 fps (Clip 4). The benchmark for CP yielded 98.64%, and for TCPMP 103.66%. Playback resulted in 3% dropped frames for CP and 1.5% dropped frames for TCPMP. However, playback is still enjoyable, just like playing the 24 fps video at 416 MHz.

    So, looks like overclocking is the only way to use the H.264 codec in our Palm devices at this quality level. I'm not sure how to translate "this quality level" into a numeric value, because I'm not yet familar with H.264's parameters. Keep in mind that the H.264 video looks better than an XviD at 600 kbps, this will give you an idea of the quality. With this quality almost every detail from the movie was very well rendered, even the thin spears, arrows, and other moving objects. I don't think I'll need a higher video quality for the TX's screen. In any case I would need to overclock it further to be able to use a higher quality, and I don't want to go above 520 MHz, which is according to specs the maximum clock for the PXA CPU in the TX, LD, and T5.

    An interesting thing: TCPMP scored higher than CP in every test, and by significant margins (almost 10% in some cases). This is something I had noticed before, but why this happens is still a mystery to me. Since CP is payware, I would expect it to have better performance than it's free predecessor. I think it has to do with the way the programs handle memory during the decoding, and perhaps TCPMP is more efficient at this. Or perhaps it is that I'm not properly configuring CP's memory buffers. This is an option that TCPMP does not have. Under CP, you can define a "Normal buffer size" (in KB), and other options as well: "Preload at underrun" (percentage) and "Preload for audio" (in KB). I don't know what the optimal values for these options are, and the lack of manual only makes things harder. As it is, I have the normal buffer set to 2048 KB, preload at underrun to 80% and preload for audio at 128 KB. I think I'll play with these settings to see if I can increase CP's performance, especially for 29 fps videos.

    I'm still trying to make sense of Handbrake's options. If you're hearing, Varjak, can you help me understand some of the advanced options under H.264? What about the "Anamorphic" options? I see a "strict", "loose" and "none" option, do you understand how they work?

    [RANT] Please don't send me over to the Handbrake forum. I visited the place, but there's a lot of people there with very short fuses coupled to high explosive charges. I saw some of your posts and the harsh answers you got just for not searching or for asking already answered questions. Not a pleasant place for a newbie! I couldn't avoid contrasting it to BH's very friendly attitude towards newbies [/RANT]

    Bottom line: H.264 is noticeably better than XviD at same file size, but to play in a Palm device at high qualities you must overclock. At 520 MHz you can really enjoy a movie, at a higher quality than with an AVI of the same size.

    Will I have to encode all my movies again? :D
     
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