Creationism vs. Evolution...should both be taught?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by dogbarber, Oct 2, 2006.

?

Intelligent Design vs. Evolution

  1. Evolution should be taught exclusively

    17 vote(s)
    54.8%
  2. I.D. should be taught side by side with Evolution

    14 vote(s)
    45.2%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. r0k

    r0k Dazed

    Messages:
    9,750
    Likes Received:
    1,264
    Trophy Points:
    288
    Atheism is rapidly becoming the state religion. America's founding fathers were all Christians but somebody along the way has forgotten that. They did not set up Christianity as the state religion, but I'm sure they never envisioned atheism as the state religion either. If you don't think atheism is the state religion, schedule a lecture on the bible, Torah or Koran for your child's fourth grade class and watch as 1) school administrators hastily cancel the lecture 2) atheists crawl out of the woodwork with lawsuits because you mentioned religion during the school day. Public schools can rent space to church groups, but only outside of school hours.

    How did we ever witness the fall of the atheistic soviet regime (through prayer by the way) only to find prayer outlawed in so many places in our own society? Has there ever been an atheistic regime that brought about the betterment of mankind? I would argue not. We need wisdom literature. I remember going to a secular humanist synagogue one time. It was pretty funny. Actually it was pretty sad, too. They read all the normal readings, even in Hebrew. They simply believed nobody was listening. To them, the value was in the wisdom contained in the writings. To me it showed how even an atheist is attracted to the truth, though they are confused about why they are attracted to it.

    I don't mind if the Chaplain is an Imam, a Rabbi, a Priest or a Right Reverend, just let him pray and shut up about separation of church and state already. They are separated enough even when we pray in congress, courtrooms and schools.

    Should we teach "junk science" to our kids? No. We should teach only that science which stands up to the scrutiny of the scientific community. No 6,000 year old earth, but at the same time evolution must be presented as a theory and creationism must get a mention as well. To teach one as fact without mentioning the other is academic fraud. To try to prop up either theory with junk science is also academic fraud.

    But let's do this for the right reasons. It has nothing to do with limiting our children's choices.

    ...Only parents can do that...

    Even if we all agreed on teaching evolution it would not be limiting our children's choices. If we can't drag their little butts to Sunday school every week then we should shut up and deal with the fact they aren't getting a moral education in secular schools. Even if prayer was allowed and creationism was the scientific theory de jour, if you aren't teaching the faith at home don't blame the schools!
     
  2. tanbam

    tanbam Mobile Deity

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Yes, that appears to be somewhat correct, at least compared to when I was a kid. I remember that when it was snack time when I was in kindergarten, we would say a prayer before we got our cookies and milk. This was in public school, too.

    Of course I didn't mind at all at the time, but then again, I was used to prayers before meals at home, anyway. But, I don't think that it is the right thing to do now. Those prayers that we said were more or less compulsory, and they were prayers to Jesus. If I were Jewish or Islamic, or any other religion for that matter, I wouldn't want my child to be pressured into what I felt was essentialy violating their faith.

    For many people, the great majority I'm sure, their faith is the most important thing in their lives. If your child was the only Christian in a class full of Muslems, I would guess that you would strongly object to a teacher-lead all-the-class-repeat-after-me prayer to Allah and giving praise to Mohommad. Since public scools could be considered a state institution, and those institutions cannot favor one religion over another, the safest legal route is to try to keep all officialy led religion out of there.

    By the same token, though, I don't think that the schools should do anything to prevent students from expressing their faith in any way that they would like to, as long as students don't "push" their faith onto other students.

    I think I would have to disagree with your view that prayer is what what caused Soviet Communism to collapse, if I that is what you were meaning with your statement. That system of government had some pretty darned serious flaws; it was doomed from the beginning. It would have failed even if there was free religious expression. From the extremely rapid re-emergance of religion after the collapse, I think that it would be safe to say that the majority of the "regular" people there still practiced their religion, though in secret.

    Of course there has, and if you take the position that a religion that worships a God other than the Christian one is just as bad as an athiestic one, then there would be many more added to the list.

    Public classrooms today are filled with kids from every religious slant. If we were to include Jewish/Christian/Muslem basis for creation, than we must also include Hindu, Buddist, Shinto, etc, because there is sure to be some children who have been brought up with those "truths".

    I don't have any problem with a disclaimer before Evolution comes up stating that it is a theory. They're not doing a very good job of teaching it now, anyway. I also don't have any problem with mentioning that there are different, religious based ideas on creation, too. But, I do feel that public classrooms are the proper place to expand on the evolution point of view, and that the home and church is the proper place to expand the religious views.
     
  3. dogbarber

    dogbarber No one in particular...

    Messages:
    4,734
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    233
    Problem is, they won't do it...
     
  4. signothefish

    signothefish Toshiba e800 Aficionado

    Messages:
    1,509
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    188
    I'm beginning to "evolve" some. :D Based on the controversy exposed in this thread, it is my opinion now that the two should be taught side-by-side, with equal attention given to both, and a disclaimer up front stating that they are opposing views and widely open to interpretation. I have just cast my vote. You should now see one more for the bottom bar.
     
  5. dogbarber

    dogbarber No one in particular...

    Messages:
    4,734
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    233
    I tried to vote twice, but I think they got their voting machine from that place in Florida!....pesky chads. :D
     
  6. signothefish

    signothefish Toshiba e800 Aficionado

    Messages:
    1,509
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    188
    I just noticed... aren't the bar colors backwards? Seems the top one should be blue and the bottom one red. (you may only get that one if you live in the US.) ;)
     
  7. dogbarber

    dogbarber No one in particular...

    Messages:
    4,734
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    233
    Ouch!:D :D :D
     
  8. tanbam

    tanbam Mobile Deity

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    78
    Yeah, that's kind of funny. It kind of sucks, though, for those of us who are very red in some respects, yet very blue in others. There just isn't a good purple party:rolleyes:
     
  9. dogbarber

    dogbarber No one in particular...

    Messages:
    4,734
    Likes Received:
    16
    Trophy Points:
    233
    Ralph Nader....:D
     
  10. Ziggy Stardust

    Ziggy Stardust Mad Scientist

    Messages:
    409
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    68

    I'm stating the obvious again, but ID is not science, and should therefore not be taught in a science class. If you feel it is necessary to teach about creationism, make it part of religious education lessons. If you think ID has scientific merit, please provide some sound scientific arguments in favour of ID.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page