Discussion in 'General Smartphone/Handheld/Wearable Discussion' started by scjjtt, Dec 24, 2015.
<rick hopes raspy can retreive the photos of Torturantula IV. so he can share>
Oh yes, I do have the pictures, since they were stored in my V10's SD card. I can post them here, but <raspy sheepishly looks up at lelisa's thunderous frown bearing down on him> on second thought I'll better upload them elsewhere and share the links with anyone interested
Oh, I'm mostly fine with tarantulas because they're big and furry and there's not a chance in (Phoenix? Tucson? Albuquerque? Insert your hottest location of choice ) that I'll accidentally encounter one in RL. My area gets Brown Recluse and Black Widows.
I'm cautiously happy to report that my V10 is alive again, hopefully for long!
As I said several posts above, I suspected the hardware of my phone is ok, and the bootloop was caused by overheating due to faulty cpu/heat sink interface. It seems this is actually the case. I'd like to share with you what I did. I've included some hideous pictures. Turns out my wife's Moto Z Play's camera is lousy for indoors pictures, and the flash is of very little help. How I missed my lovely V10's camera during this session! I hope the images are viewable, while I write this they're not shown when pressing the "Preview" button.
Here's the phone without the battery cover, without battery, and with the back cover removed. The CPU is on the other side of the mainboard.
Disassembly was very easy, there are several screws and some plastic hooks, but these disengaged easily and without needing to force the plastic components.
Here is a close-up of the mainboard and the back of the front panel:
Here is where I think LG did a very lousy job. The CPU presses against the thermal pad, and the interface is nowhere near so solid as it should be. The thermal pad is quite spongy, and it seemed to be in good condition, but I'm guessing the CPU no longer presses against it hard enough for heat to flow adequately. See the two screws? That's the only thing keeping the CPU pressed against the thermal pad. They're not even diagonally opposed! The interface should be much more solid. The heat sink itself is huge (the whole flat plate that makes up the top half of the phone), but it's not receiving heat at a fast enough rate to cool down the CPU.
Now it's baking time. Into the oven the mainboard went:
The picture is extra lousy because my wife went to her Mom's and took her Z Play. All I had in hand was my Optimus L7. The resistances were glowing red, but the phone's camera is off balance! I baked the mainboard for 5 minutes at 150° C (300° F), then promptly burned my fingers as I removed that small dish from the oven. On visual inspection the mainboard seemed ok, no damage from heat.
Now came assembly time. Here you can see the mainboard and the heat sink. I decided to remove the old thermal pad. Instead, I placed a new, smaller one. I also added not one, but two copper sheets, to make up for the thickness of the original pad.
I assembled everything again, using silicone thermal compund between each element, then tighened the screws around the CPU real hard. Completed assembly, crossed fingers, and was greeted by a familiar and sorely missed sight:
Everything is in perfect working order. No data loss, no strange behavior. It's been just two hours, and I haven't really used the phone yet, so it's very premature to say it's fixed. I plan to take it slowly, see if the phone can endure the noon heat on idle before pushing it with movies or games.
I also think I can improve the fix: I'll look for longer screws, see if I can find tiny pressure rings to strenghten the mechanical assembly. I'll also look for a thicker copper or aluminum sheet to replace the two current ones and eliminate one of the interfaces.
I'm very glad that the mainboard is ok, and I hope I can keep my V10 in working condition for the foreseeable future. Disassembly is very easy, so I can repeat this procedure if needed, but it's not something I'd like to do on a monthly basis, especially if the need arises unexpectedly. If I can't have a reliable device, I'll simply have to replace it. I'm also sorely disappointed at LG: the failure is caused by bad engineering, and it's very easy to make a good cpu/heat sink interface. It's appalling to see such a poor design in a powerful device. Some copper heat tubing (as used on other phones) would have prevented this problem.
Let's hope the fix holds!
Well, I guess my luck ran out on the v10. Last night my phone started turning on and off. I, at a restaurant, was so desperate, because nothing else was working, that I even went to a hard reset and to wipe out all data but the phone would not even allow me to click ok on the second question of two, to reset the phone.
I've tried everything I know to do. Even got a weird green screen with a message - but that didn't help me. (Pic is was taken on a backup S4 - I'll edit this post and insert). Now the only thing the phone will do is briefly show me the LG screen and then nothing, and I can only get that to do that if I take the battery out and then press the power button or try a hard reset.
Last night I ordered the phone that I got a few weeks ago as a backup that Mrs scjjtt took - a LG G4 for $89. It is a refurbished phone, but hers looks brand new. Yeah, I know that the G4 also had boot loop issues - but not everyone. I just didn't want to spend $450 for a new phone. I'll take my chance with the G4 and try to contact LG and see if they'll honor the warranty - since I bought it from Amazon. My son-in-law had a similar problem with his third party purchase of a LG v10 and LG sent him a new refurbished phone.
My LG G4 is suppose to arrive on Monday. Our son's wedding is Saturday. I have reset Mrs scjjtt's S4 and will go to T-Mobile today to get the right size sim card to put it in.
I could live with the S4 but the G4 has the same camera as the v10 and the G4's take great indoor pictures. I really was impressed with Mrs scjjtt G4. It has 32 GB of internal memory, instead of the v10's 64 GB. The G4 has 3 GB of RAM instead of 4 GB that the v10 has. With what I do, I don't think I'll notice a difference in the performace of using the G4 over the v10.
I have to wonder if I should have just left Android 5.0 on my v10 and not upgraded to 6.0 and then to 7.0. Mrs scjjtt came with Android 6.0 installed on it and it is suppose to get 7.0. I'm not sure if I'll install 7.0 on either one of them.
I'll keep you all updated on my experience with LG and see if they send me a replacement v10.
Sent from my Lenovo TAB 2 A10-70F using Tapatalk
Here's the green screen I got a couple of times. I even tried plugging it into my computer - but nothing...
Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk
What bad news, Scott! That's the same screeen I saw on mine when it failed, the "Demigod Crash Handler". I don't really know what it means, except that it announces that the phone has failed with a bootloop.
I don't think the OS version affects the likelihood of a bootloop, so it should be ok to install 6.0 or 7.0, or keep it with 5.0 - if the phone is destined to bootloop then it will bootloop no matter what OS it has. I believe the V10 suffers from a hardware problem, a cumulative degradation of the heat sink/CPU interface, which makes the CPU overheat and probably makes the CPU terminals become unsoldered. I think that's why baking the mainboard makes it work again, and fixing the interface alleviates (I still can't be sure it completely fixes) the original problem. Scott, if LG won't replace your V10 is there a chance you can find a technician to perform a fix similar to the one I did, or similar fixes on XDA or Youtube?
My V10 is working ok after the fix. I've played full HD movies and ran video intensive games for over an hour, the CPU heats to over 65º C (as reported by Droid Info), and I notice an adequate cooling of the phone, there have been no crashes or bootloops so far. I'm keeping an eye on it and crossing my fingers, but I'm also preparing in case it fails again. I purchased online a bootlooped but otherwise ok V10, for around USD 100. I plan to attempt fixing it so I'll have a spare phone, and even if the fix fails I'll at least have a second battery and some other spare parts should the need arise. I find it very hard to give up on my V10. As Scott said, the camera is fantastic. I didn't pay attention to the camera during my selection process a year ago, but now I don't want to go to a lesser camera. I also don't want to give up the second screen and overall ruggedness of the phone, or the IR port, removable battery, SD card, etc, etc. It's just sad that such a great phone is marred by this severe design flaw. I did check other models trying to find a replacement, but ironically the only models that I find somewhat interesting are the LG V20 and LG G6. Samsung phones are too expensive here and don't have all the stuff I want -and have a few I don't care about, such as curved edge screens and iris detection-, Moto Z or Z Play (1 and 2) have mediocre cameras, and I don't want to give up on the 3.5mm headset jack. Other brands and models (HTC, Huawei, etc) don't have good enough offerings based on what I need/want. Then there's the wallet factor to consider, of course
I hope you can get your V10 fixed by LG, Scott.
Raspy, I do have someone who can help - my friend who does all of my phone & computer work. He can basically fix anything but that's the problem & everyone wants a piece of him. I had sent him your work/fix immediately to him after you posted it (just in case) & he found it very interesting.
I'll be giving it to him to work on if LG doesn't come through - I might even give him the phone that LG sends me before it happens.
So, just to be clear, did your phone get to the point that all it did was bring the LG logo on & then off?
You're right - it is a great phone, it is amazing that people who are so smart in making a phone could make such a problem - and it isn't like they had never seen the problem before - it was in some of their G4's hopefully not in Mrs scjjtt's or the one I have coming.
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That sounds good Scott, looks like you have your plan A and plan B ready. Good luck with them!
Yes, my V10 had the exact same symptoms: the green screen, completely unresponsive, then after removing and reinserting battery it wouldn't go past the LG logo, and sometimes it would shut off and remain unresponsive.
There are videos on Youtube about people baking their V10's mainboard to high temperatures (over 250° C, around 480° F). I didn't go that far, only around 350° F. I'm not sure how much heat the chip can take. But the best way to do it would be with a heat gun, and that's a tool I don't have. If your friend has one, that could work better than heating the whole board.
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