Discussion in 'General Smartphone/Handheld/Wearable Discussion' started by internetpilot, Nov 8, 2018.
For me there's a HUGE difference in security updates and OS updates. Since I rooted my Moto G5S Plus shortly after buying it, I haven't been able to take any OTA security updates (for almost a year now). That being said, I have applied some security updates myself. It's relatively easy to do, especially if you're already rooting/flashing ROMs, so I'm not really concerned so much about security updates as I am about OS updates. And it's with OS updates that Android grossly fails (and they also at least mildly fail on security updates). OS updates are the main reason I root. For most Android device manufacturers, OS updates come REALLY slow and after like a year (maybe two years tops), OS updates don't come at all. Since I tend to keep my devices for a long time, after that first year or one OS update (whichever comes first), I end up rooting so I can continue updating the OS and keeping the device relevant. Of course, these manufactures really just want you to buy a new device, but if there's nothing wrong with my device, why should I buy a new one? A perfect example is when my son was still using a rather ancient Samsung Galaxy S3 phone until like August of this year. I had Nougat running on his S3. Samsung had long since abandoned support/updates for that phone. If my Nexus 6 didn't have a hardware failure, I would probably still be using it to this day, but Google abandoned the Nexus 6 a couple of years ago. My Samsung Galaxy Note 2 is still working fine, and I think I used it for about 4 years before buying the Nexus 6. 3rd-party development is basically nonexistent for the Note 2 now, but it's still in perfect working condition. I can say that if the Note 2 was better supported, I would probably still be using it. So, if I do move on to an iPhone, unless there's just a major tech innovation that perks up my interest in the latest model, I'll probably have that one iPhone for a very long time.
I guess I don't see the allure of having the newest and greatest OS so long as it is supported. The change from 7.x to 8.x was meh at best. It introduced multiple frustrations (in part Samsung's fault) that ultimately caused me to shift what software I use on my device. At a certain point in life I've come to say "screw the newest flashiest things, and give me stability and a consistent environment". That's what stage I'm in. No desire to have to manually flash updates. I want them OTA. I don't need the newest OS. I can brows the web, run my apps the same on 7.x vs 8.x. I can browse the web and run software the same on W7 as I can on W10. I'll be sure to be off W7 before EOL in 2020.
Given your longer device ownership desires, as well as wanting the newest OS available, I can see how the iPhone has potential to fit your needs better.
But is your OS still supported? And even if it still is, for how much longer will it be? Android has a horrible track record of just dropping support for the previous version as soon as it comes out with the latest on their Nexus/Pixel devices. With previous devices, I didn't really care if Google or the manufacturer stopped supporting my stock OS, because I could simply go on XDA and get much better featured ROMs that were updated like weekly or at least monthly. But starting with this Moto G5S Plus, the 3rd-party support just isn't there, which caused me to look into other devices (Samsung, Google, LG, etc.), only to discover the 3rd-party support isn't exactly spectacular with them either. This used to be one of the main benefits of Android, but it's definitely dwindling and with some manufacturers, it's simply gone.
For the record, I'm unimpressed with Oreo. My son's Moto G6 came with Oreo 8.0 and I just don't see much difference between it and Nougat (which is on my Moto G5S Plus). It took them over a year, but Moto finally released an Oreo update for the Moto G5S Plus, but if you go to the Moto support forums, there are a lot of significant post-update problems. It's a lot of trouble for me to get my rooted Moto G5S Plus back to unrooted 100% OTA capable stock, but I could do it. I just really don't see a reason to upgrade (especially when it's not that easy for me or anyone who rooted this device).
For the moment, I'll just stick with my Moto G5S Plus with its rooted stock Nougat, but if something happens to the is phone, I will more than likely replace it with a current Apple offering.
Yep. Note 5, Released Aug 2015 is still getting security patches. That's 3 years and then some. I don't use it, as I switched off my once highly coveted Sprint SERO plan, and hopped onto my parent's plan, and switched to the Note 8. If I busted my 8, I could hop back to my Note 5 while awaiting repairs / replacement and still be secure. So it outlasted my 2+ years of use, which is what I expect of my devices.
3rd party support is a gamble at best, no matter which device you have. Great for a hobbyist, but not someone in the trenches that needs timely and dead simple / quick patches. My days of rooting are over for the foreseeable future. Ain't got the time, nor the desire to figure out how to fix all the stuff you may end up needing to fix after going 3rd party. My device works, stock, and patched.
I can't tell you the last time I downloaded a new app off the play store. I've got $60 and growing in my Play account, and can't find a single reason to spend it. Unlike my days back on Palm OS, I don't tinker anymore. I did my initial tinkering on Android multiple years back. I've got what I need, and I'm set. I've looked though. Top utilities, tools, and just don't see anything worthwhile. I've got a few games on my device, but I prefer to keep from adding any more. I'd rather keep my focus on the real world around me and my wife, friends, and family. But like I said earlier, that's my story.
I can definitely echo the opinions of IP and HC. My Samsung Epic 4G and S4 were rooted and had other Rom's on them only because I had a friend who'd help me out and do it for me. Now using the LG G4 I use whatever is on it and it works - and even makes phone calls.
Mrs scjjtt's G4 and my G4 both run Android 6.0. It works. All the apps I want to use have no problem working on it.
Our son and DIL are coming home for Thanksgiving. He can't understand why I'm using the G4 when I have a LG v10 as a back up. I told him that I was saving that one so when the G4 goes down I'm upgrading to a better phone. He told me that I was acting like people who put towels over their brand new cars and never sit on the upholstery. I have always said that - that didn't make sense - I want to enjoy my new car - not hand over a used car that is like new for someone else to enjoy while I sat on towels the whole time owning the car. I agreed with him but then said that I like to have the same phone as Mrs scjjtt so I can offer help whenever she needs it or share batteries (yes, we can still use replaceable batteries with these older flagship phones). He told me that he will bring his v10 home with him if I promise to switch phones - because he wants better pictures of the dogs!
The LG v10 runs Android 7.0. Again, I don't see a big difference in the OS. I use Nova Launcher. I pay for the apps that I use that run ads whenever possible so I don't have to deal with them. I also refrain from using any public WiFi. It seems that whenever I do I get a notice from Google that they blocked someone trying to use my log in and I have to then go and change out my password on all my devices.
My Lenovo Tab 2 A10-70F that I purchased 3 years ago runs Android 6.0 - and it seems to still be working fine or at least good enough for me to write this response with.
Sent from my Lenovo TAB 2 A10-70F using Tapatalk
I don't think I could actually use Marshmallow (Android 6) after using Nougat (Android 7) because so much changed, both in the UI and some pretty important features. Some of the features of Android 7 were corrections of bad decisions made with Android 6 update to Android 5 (Lollipop). But like you, I've used Nova Launcher since...uh....forever? Haha! So, I don't tend to notice very many of the UI changes. Since that's pretty much all the Android 8 update is, that's probably why I don't see much use in updating.
Don't think for one second that I'm going totally Apple, though. I will always be on Windows PCs for my primary computers (both gaming laptops and a custom built server class desktop). And just the other day (because apparently I'm still quite the sucker for Google), I picked up a Chromebook and the verdict is... I LOVE IT. In fact, my only annoyance with the it so far is that the feature advertisement decal on the keyboard was difficult to remove and left and glue residue that was a pain to get off. And since the Chromebook I bought (Acer Spin 15.6) is a 2-in-1 convertible, I don't see any need to get an iPad (even if something finally happens to my aging Samsung Galaxy Note 10.1 2014 edition tablet).
What's interesting is that as disillusioned as I am with Android, I'm equally impressed with ChromeOS. I'm beginning to think that Google can't focus on more than one OS at time.
As I predicted, Google has stopped security updates for the Nexus 6p. Which is ridiculous. The phone is only 3 years old. Fine, if you don't want to update it to Pie (although having looked at Pie on Mrs. Hook's Pixel 2XL, I don't see any huge differences from Nougat or Oreo and I don't think there is anything the 6p doesn't have the horsepower to handle), but at least keep issuing security updates. Pie is being developed for the 6p by Lineage OS, so that may be where I'll end up having to go. Or, I'll just carry one with DU Oreo and no security updates. It's just a shame this notion that a phone is done in 3 years.
From this thread, it does sound like Samsung does a bit better than Google themselves when it comes to security updates for older phones. I just hate Samsung (my "Samsung" tablet has not a stitch of Samsung software on it. I just find Touchwiz awful (yes, I use Nova, but when you drill down it's still Touchwiz) and the bloat as well (although I may be biased from earlier versions-- I haven't tried Samsung in a long while).
Speaking of bloat, that is the main reason I root and use ROMs. So that almost nothing is installed as a system app and I can get rid of everything I don't want. Makes for very clean, efficient phones. Blocking ads isn't a huge concern. I pay for ad free versions of apps and generally won't install a free app if it is free because it has ads. I realize there is a good chance I might not root my next phone (because, alas, I will only do so if there is a good and stable ROM I can go to). I am not looking forward to life in that world.
But, for now, I am nowhere near ready to give up my Nexus 6p.
I get that Apple often deprecates ports and features earlier than most would like them to; but the headphone plug elimination is a real head-scratcher. It takes of next to no room on the outside and very little on the inside (I haven't opened an iPhone, but I have seen how headphone plugs are incorporated into small radios and such). Plus, it has other features that enable it to be used while the other ports are open or used for other things. Crazy.
Well, this is all supposedly changing with the Google Pixel 3. As I understand it Google designed them and Foxconn (the iPhone manufacturer) is building them. So now Google basically has control of everything Pixel 3. Will that mean they'll support it "forever" like Apple does? You won't see me betting any money on that. Also, although Google didn't design the Pixel 2, it's not like HTC and LG (who did design them) are exactly slouches or known for putting out crappy quality phones. Look at the Nexus 6. It was built by Motorola when Google owned Motorola, but Google still didn't support it any longer than any other Nexus/Pixel phone (thus far).
Google needs to be careful because now their age-old fallback excuse of, "Well, Apple controls everything about the iPhone", is now gone.
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