Another Hint Palm Is Considering a Foleo II

Discussion in 'Headline News' started by Ed Hardy, Sep 17, 2007.

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  1. Ed Hardy

    Ed Hardy TabletPCReview Editor Staff Member

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    <!-- Generated by XStandard version 1.7.1.0 on 2007-09-17T19:44:30 --><p>When Palm announced it was canceling the Foleo Mobile Companion on the eve of its launch, the company's CEO said he still saw potential in this class of devices.</p><p>To add support to this, there's evidence that the company has started to think about a Foleo II.</p><p><img align="right" src="http://www.brighthand.com/assets/6667.jpg" width="120" /></p><p><strong>A Change Is in the Offing</strong></p><p>Before the cancellation, Palm distributed a few Foleo units to people willing to sign a Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA) on proprietary details of this device. It has since sent an email to this group asking for the units back.</p><p>Palm's reasoning for this, as indicated by the email, is that the device will do them no good, because a Foleo II will have different hardware.</p><p>Of course, no details are given on what that new hardware will be, but at least it shows that Palm is thinking about it..</p><p><strong>What Little We Know</strong></p><p>Not surprisingly, little has been said about the Foleo II. Still, Palm's CEO Ed Colligan has expressed confidence that it will be released at some point.</p><p>&quot;When we do Foleo II it will be based on our new platform, and we think it will deliver on the promise of this new category,&quot; he wrote on his company's blog.</p><p>Colligan is referring to his company's upcoming Linux-based operating system, which many are referring to as Palm OS II.</p><p>The primary reason given for canceling the first Foleo was that it would have used a different operating system from any of Palm's smartphones or handhelds.</p><p><strong>Related Articles</strong></p><ul>

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    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2014
  2. Ed Hardy

    Ed Hardy TabletPCReview Editor Staff Member

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    While I wouldn't classify this as grasping at straws, I'll admit the evidence I cited is fairly tenuous. But, like Colligan and Hawkins, I see merit in the Mobile Companion concept, and I'm hoping a Foleo II is eventually released.
     
  3. robrecht

    robrecht Pretty Good Member

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    When the units are returned, is the NDA therby dissolved? In other words, did you return yours, Ed?

    By the way, what ever happende to the other Palm OS II? Was it ever officially killed off?
     
  4. Mi An

    Mi An Endogame

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    I'm skeptical about a second device coming (though I'm supportive of the device class). If the climate won't be any different next year, why not release the Foleo 1 and start proving critics wrong now and building a base to buy the Foleo 2? No matter what the cause of the cancellation actually was, Critics and carriers won't be changing, so the only thing Palm has any hope of changing would be design--and I'm not clear on what flaws/shortcomings Palm sees in the device.

    Personally, I think they got it right, though I never got see how they executed remote desktop (to me, potentially the most powerful feature).
     
  5. Ed Hardy

    Ed Hardy TabletPCReview Editor Staff Member

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    I never had one, so I don't know the terms of the NDA. It's an unusual situation.

    I don't know what you're referring to.
     
  6. Ed Hardy

    Ed Hardy TabletPCReview Editor Staff Member

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    As Colligan stated, the Foleo I was canceled because it would have run a completely different operating system from all of Palm's other products, forcing the company to spend a great deal of resources writing code that applies to only one product. That will still be true next year, which is why Palm will never release the Foleo I.

    Palm clearly sees one major flaw: it would have had an incompatible operating system. That's what's going to change in the Foleo II.

    I also expect Palm to address many of the other criticisms of this device in the next version.
     
  7. robrecht

    robrecht Pretty Good Member

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    IIRC, it was Palm OS 6 or Cobalt or something like that. I think it was announced, released, and at least one revision was developed, but then over a year passed without new devices being released with this operating system and then I stared hearing abou the next generation Linux kernal OS. I wasn't following Palm closely at the time 'cause I had gone over to the dark side. Was this operating system ever released on a device?
     
  8. r0k

    r0k Dazed

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    Cobalt was stillborn some years ago. Nobody signed on to use it and it is really really dead. Palm OS II is a new version of Palm OS that runs on a Linux Kernel. ALP (Access Linux Platform) is a new version of Palm OS that runs on a Linux Kernel but nobody has signed on to use it. It is being developed by the former Palmsource folks that developed, or shall I say never finished Cobalt.

    I know it's confusing, but there are 3 entries in the Palmos race right now. There is that tired old nag Garnet, then there's Palmos II and then there's ALP. Most folks are betting on Palmos II to eventually win the race. What most of us are upset about is the recent announcement that there would be no Palmos II smartphones for 12 to 18 months. That's a really long time to wait after we've already waited far too long.

    As if things weren't confusing enough, the Foleo ran another Linux entirely and it wouldn't have been able to run any Palmos apps. Foleo 2 will most likely run Palm OS II. In another thread, I said I wish they would release an x86 version of Linux to use existing Linux apps, but in light of their need to only support one OS at a time, they won't be doing anything differently on Foleo 2 versus their new Palmos II smartphones.

    hope this helps
     
  9. Adama D. Brown

    Adama D. Brown Brighthand Reviewer

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    Oh, Cobalt has been dead for a long long time, long before even the Palm Linux project at PalmSource, ALP at Access, or the unnamed "Palm OS II" project at Palm Inc. It only made it onto one pre-production device which never saw actual availability.
     
  10. Wheezer

    Wheezer Wheezer

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    Well, whatever they are planning they better act fast!

    They have wasted years making subtle modifications to the treo while neglecting the life drive / PDA lines which although initially quite profitable is really starting to hit them in the pocketbook. They really need to take a leap of faith here and burn some serious cash on Research and Development and come up with some innovative.

    Its a risky business anyway you slice it. Look at Sony. The PS3 had the potential really hurt them (and it appears it may still do so!). XBOX/ 360 has made microsoft any money. However, with so much competition you can only be king of the hill if you are willing to (and can afford to::eek: ) stay on top.
     
  11. dmccunney

    dmccunney Mobile Deity

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    What if the critics aren't wrong?

    That's easy. They don't think it will sell.

    The market that could use a Foleo probably already has a laptop. If the Foleo could replace a laptop, with a smaller, lighter device when traveling, it had an opportunity. But if it could do that, Palm certainly didn't make it clear. And if you already have a laptop and the Foleo can't replace it, you certainly aren't going to carry both. What Palm never did was provide a clear use case for the Foleo, or seem to have a coherent idea of who the market was that they thought would buy it.

    A revamped Foleo II running Palm OS II (or whatever they call it), based on an embedded Linux kernel, with the possibility of porting other Linux apps to it becomes very interesting indeed. It becomes something you might be able to use stand-alone when you don't happen to have an Internet connection, and might possibly replace a laptop with a smaller, lighter device. I'd buy that in a heartbeat if it were done right. I wouldn't buy a Foleo I because it wouldn't fill any need I have.
    ______
    Dennis
     
  12. RickAgresta

    RickAgresta Above: Peanut, leader of the Peanutty Forces

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    although this is most likely overoptimism at its worst, I'm hoping that in the interim we'll see a traditional handheld (or more than one!) released, running the new OS :rolleyes: <*fingers-crossed*>
     
  13. dmccunney

    dmccunney Mobile Deity

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    Cobalt was supposed to be Palm OS 6. It was supposed to add a multi-threading/multi-tasking kernel to Palm Os. Palm hired a bunch of developers from Be (creators of the BeBox and BeOS) to work on Cobalt.

    But the BeBox and BeOS were intended as multi-media solutions, and BeOS wasn't a good fit for a PDA. As far as I know, Cobalt actually got completed, but nobody, including Palm, signed on to use it. Meantime, Sony exited the PDA market, and Palm merged with Handspring, so the potential customers who might use it vanished.

    (In their last Investor Day materials, Palm made of point of stating they wouldn't license their new OS to others. That would mean more if there were any indication anyone else wanted to license it...)
    ______
    Dennis
     
  14. r0k

    r0k Dazed

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    Wow. I haven't smelled that particular aroma since in over 30 years now. It was something those guys with the long hair and beads were smoking.

    But hey, I'll dream along with you. After all, there's no carrier bullcrap involved in getting a pda out the door and when time is of the essence, it would save a whole chicken coop worth of eggs on Palm's face if they got a Linux PDA out the door some time in 2008. :rolleyes: <*fingers-crossed holding breath to avoid a contact buzz*>
     
  15. r0k

    r0k Dazed

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    It's kind of a sour grapes thing. It's like the kid on the playground who says he didn't want to swap for your lunch anyway. " 'cuz yours tastes bad anyway". But you know yours is a PBJ while his is moldy Liverwurst and Anchovies.

    On the other hand, if Palm manages to get something out the door that works well and revives the Zen of Palm, there will be interested licensees. But at that point, Palm might elect to take the Apple approach and try to control absolutely everything themselves. This approach can only work if Palm keeps the product fresh and they don't try to palm off 0.00001 percent incremental improvements as worthwhile upgrades.
     
  16. Ed Hardy

    Ed Hardy TabletPCReview Editor Staff Member

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    No, Palm did think it would sell, but only after a more time and money had been spent on it. Palm's executives decided that wouldn't be the best use of their resources, as it would be effort spent on a single product/operating system.

    Hence the second version, which will be less of a drain on resources, as any development done for it potentially can be used on its smartphones and handhelds, as these will products will all be running on the same operating system.
     
  17. cktlcmd

    cktlcmd Mobile Deity

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    I love the Palm OS as opposed to Windows Mobile, but the lack of development and devices led me to switch sides since Sony dropped their PDA line, that itself marked their demise.

    I agree with everyone, if they don't come up with something really good within a year, they'll be buried by the new PDAs and cell phones coming from WM and Apple.

    Regarding the Foleo II, I will only consider buying something almost as big as a laptop (Foleo I) if it can replace both my PDA Phone and laptop at the same time.

    ---
     
  18. dmccunney

    dmccunney Mobile Deity

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    :p

    The bigger question is who would license it, and what they would use it for.

    With just about every Palm OS licensee except Palm now out of the PDA market or belly up, the natural pool of licensees evaporated. I suppose it's possible a smartphone manufacturer might be interested, but most of them have established choices, like Symbian or Windows Mobile.

    I have the same questions about who Access Palmsource thinks will license ALP.
    ______
    Dennis
     
  19. r0k

    r0k Dazed

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    They've been buried before. They have money and their devices are still selling. They just released a WM6 phone in Europe that will hopefully bring in some bucks. Heck, for the next year they might just cruise along selling WM phones until they get their OS act together. I still remember that Sprint rep telling me the Treo 800 would somehow run BOTH windows and Palm apps. I think the guy was suffering from a lack of knowledge but hey, maybe they are gonna do a series of WM / Styletap bundled phones to carry them through this OS drought.

    Edit: Just saw your post, Dennis. A decent execution might lure HP to diversify its offerings. I doubt they could lure back Sony but you are right. For now the usual suspects have all been rounded up and either are out of business or locked up in WinJail.
     
  20. dmccunney

    dmccunney Mobile Deity

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    Sell how well? And to whom? But yes, Palm needed a hit out of the box. They don't have the leisure to wait for the thing to find a market.

    If they can use a similar reference design for the hardware, but make it run Palm OS II along with their smartphones and (hopefully) PDAs, agreed they have a chance.

    As it stands, the Foleo I/Foleo II are in the same position as the UMPCs: it's not at all clear who is supposed to buy them and what they will do with them.
    ______
    Dennis
     

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