4th unit has just failed

Discussion in 'HP iPAQ 210 Enterprise Handheld' started by neillm, Apr 17, 2008.

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  1. neillm

    neillm Mobile Deity

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    My 4th HP 214 has just failed. It was sat on my desk at about 96% charge. I switched it off and went to a meeting. An hour later I came back and plugged in the 24 pin sync connector and the unit switched on (as it does when you plug it in) and then immediately switched off.

    Then it was back to the old problem I had with my previous other three 214's. It says the battery is at 0%, then after 5 minutes or so it jumps to 100% and the green light comes on. The cycle then repeats.

    What the heck and I to do now? The retailer has already said they will not replace it and HP are not replying.

    The battery really is dead. Had it tested by our battery guru. So how can it have gone from 96% to 0% instantly like that? Did plugging in the 24 pin connector short it out? Was it not really at 96% to start with? This is just crazy! I am not doing anything unusual with these things.

    Previous thread history here:
    http://forum.brighthand.com/showthread.php?t=256035
     
  2. alan sh

    alan sh Mobile Deity

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    Neil,

    what is it that you are doing that we don't? Do you live in an area where power fluctuates? Or are you particularily sensitive to static?

    There must be some reason why you have lost 4 of these and others haven't.

    I'm not blaming you - there may well be an inherent weakness that only you have found - but we have to start somewhere.

    I gather that the 4700 batteries work in the 210 - have you tried them?

    Also, have you tried recharging the battery overnight (Ok, probably too soon to know this yet)

    Alan
     
  3. Binh

    Binh PDA User

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    It might be a power surge when you plug in the sync connector. Have you tried any other brand/model? The biggest statistic information here is that all 4 broken items all are HP 214.
     
  4. neillm

    neillm Mobile Deity

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    This is the first time I've seen it fail this way. Other times it's failed when turning it on when on battery power.

    I did absolutely nothing unusual this time. The unit was switched off on my desk. No way could any app have taken the battery down to 0% in one hour. I just got back from a meeting and connected it to sync it. I'm absolutely gobsmacked. I'm using the genuine HP mains adapter that came with the 4th unit. I'm also in the UK, the power is very clean here. I also doubt it's a short circuit. Discharging 2.2AH instantaneously would cause an explosion. I think the battery or 214 just thinks it's dead.

    I'm running my Fujitsu 720 in parallel. It's running the same software and has an identical SD card fitted. They both sit on the same desk connected to the same mains and the same laptop. I do the same to my Fujitsu as I do to my HP. This is how I found that SPB Insight is capable of completely discharging the battery of any device (I don't use it anymore).

    I'm not the only person to see this either.

    HP, at last, have promised to contact me tomorrow. Let's hope we get somewhere.
     
  5. neillm

    neillm Mobile Deity

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    The battery will not charge. No current flows into it. Something somewhere is screwy.
     
  6. David Hettel

    David Hettel Mobile Deity

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    Okay I've got to ask, how do you know this? HP has chosen to hide this information, as far as I know no software will read this from an iPAQ 210. If this is factually true, then you have tripped a safety device in the battery pack IMHO. Even a dead battery will accept some current flow, provide one has the ability to measure it. Either you've blown a fuse, or the battery pack has been told to shut down, by software (not sure if it is capable of this).

    Do you have software that is attempting to read battery status that you've installed?
     
  7. neillm

    neillm Mobile Deity

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    I work for a company that specialises in mobile devices. We have the facilities to test batteries in situ here.

    Also, I had a Mugen extended battery with my 2nd 214. I saw the same fault with that battery as well. Mugen took it back and said "Our technical department has tested the battery and found the ID Code data was not typed in correctly. The data control current flow in/out setting was found incorrect. The charging led can turn to green, but actually no current flows in. We have checked other batteries from the same batch and this seems to be an isolated case."

    Perhaps the ID code in the battery's chip is getting wiped or corrupted by the 214 somehow.
     
  8. davidbec

    davidbec Mobile Deity

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    When I first got to the brighthand site and saw the title. I thought perhaps it was you but hoped it wasn't.

    I am absolutely dumbstruck!! Utter shock.
     
  9. David Hettel

    David Hettel Mobile Deity

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    So is that by means of software? As opposed to hardware? To me it sounds a lot like your means maybe effecting the HP batteries. You are saying in situ, and by that I take it you mean with the battery inside the iPAQ.

    Mechanically you could insert something between the terminals to divert the current so that it can be measured. I suppose it is also possible you have access to information most of us don't.

    Clearly you are doing something that most of us are not doing, as we are not experiencing this, and at four in a row I no longer buy it is random luck of the draw. HP's quality control is poor, (IMHO) but it just isn't that poor. Something is different in your environment, and your ability to measure in situ jumps out at me. I am sorry.
     
  10. wetsleet

    wetsleet Mobile Deity

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    if a fully charged battery discharged completely in 60 minutes its got to have been very warm. Was it?
     
  11. DrAT

    DrAT Mobile Deity

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    Oh no.
    As David H. says above, have you been testing anything before or during use that the rest of us wouldn't? Did you test each battery before use? Perhaps they don't like being tested. Do you use any applications that no-one else would have? Even removing the battery is something a lot of users avoid.
    I'm guessing that you're doing something that your other PDAs are happy with but the iPAQ isn't. It must be something so routine to you that you do it without thinking.
    I'm sorry for being obvious but the answer is probably right under your nose. Try to list everything you did with the new machine, however trivial.
     
  12. abagley

    abagley noob

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    will it take current with the mini usb? or even run on direct power while plugged in?
     
  13. AshMa

    AshMa Mobile Deity

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    Wow 4th unit?! Well the miner problem I had was resolved the other day and I’ve since had no battery issues. Last night turned off the unit at 97% charge, woke this morning with 97% charge.

    About Spb Insight: For whatever reason it doesn’t like having its storage card removed as we know, so I installed it to that useless little place called FileStore and now also unchecked the box in Spb Pocket Plus, that automatically refreshes the icons when a card is inserted. All is working very well now and I have about 40 channels in Insight and still about 7MB left over.

    Ashton
     
  14. MD1032

    MD1032 Mobile Evangelist

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    Just to rule it out: you did charge the unit before using it at first when you initially got it, right?
     
  15. JakeRich

    JakeRich Mobile Deity

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    Before you start posting, read the history here. As you will see, neillm has done a lot of troubleshooting to try to solve his problems. I am also dumbfounded at the situation.
     
  16. David Hettel

    David Hettel Mobile Deity

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    WHY?
    Sometimes asking the same questions over and over provides enlightenment. In the other thread we learn how he is doing nothing different than any of us, today here we learn that in actuality he is doing something very different than most of us. He is measuring the battery in situ.

    Simple fact is most people are NOT experiencing this. Neillm may very well work for a company that "... specialises in mobile devices." That in itself does not prove that they have a deep understanding of the iPAQ 210. The simple fact that Neillm has had four in a row fail, strongly suggest that Neillm is doing something that most of us aren't. Today we learn he is measuring the battery in situ, the very thing he reports time after time to be failing. I have an IBM notebook and as has been reported by a number of users it appears to be able to tell the battery to shut down. Perhaps when it thinks that battery is in a dangerous state. At that point the only option is to replace the battery pack. I also seem to recall HP having print heads, that the printer shuts off, so one can not refill them, as well as print heads that shut off because they are too old.

    Perhaps in an attempt to read the battery values, he is creating an error condition that is activating a failsafe device? One after market supplier states that their battery has electronics to monitor and control their battery, it is not unreasonable to assume the iPAQ battery does as well. I believe if one goes back and counts Neillm has actually had more than four battery failures. Being evasive as to just what and how they have the facilities to test batteries in situ here, doesn't help. The finger has been pointed at HP for awhile, today I believe it has swung in another direction.
     
  17. JakeRich

    JakeRich Mobile Deity

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    David, I don't see why you object to me pointing to the history of this case. MD1032 asked neillm if he had charged it. In the other thread neillm clearly said he had. abagley, binh and wetsleet all asked questions already answered in that thread. All I was suggesting is that the posters read what neillm has already tried before this thread gets 500 posts long with neillm repeating the same answers over and over and over and over.

    BTW, my 210 failure was EXACTLY the same as neillm, and I never measured the power, never ran SPB Insight and didn't install anything but what had been running on my Axim X50v for years. So, let's be careful before we point fingers. Yes, something is going on, but neillm isn't the only one who has seen this phenomenon.
     
  18. Mickeylittle

    Mickeylittle Former TX/Ipaq 210 User

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    David H,
    I second your opinion totally. The odds of 4 bad units in a row is astronomical! It definately makes sense that some outside condition is disabling these batteries.
    Neillm, I would suggest replacing the battery in this 4th unit and then only plug in the sync cable or USB just to see if this fixes the issue. Maybe your tests are harmless except under a booby trap setup which may well be the case. Not done by HP to ruin a battery but to avoid damaging the unit.

    JakeRich,
    You had the problem once? I'm just asking cause I don't remember but we're talking 4 straight times. If this was truly faulty devices at that rate we would be seeing tons of posts and not just from 2-3 people about these dead machines.
    2 cents,
    Mick
     
  19. JakeRich

    JakeRich Mobile Deity

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    Mickeylittle, technically I had the problem twice. The first time HP replaced the battery. The replacement battery worked for a week, then it fell to 0% instantly and came back to 100% instantly in 5-10 minutes on the charger ten times in one day. HP then put me through the ringer and finally replaced the 210. Right now I am on day 7 with the new 210 and the second battery. (HP didn't send a battery with the replacement, just the 210 itself.)
     
  20. Mickeylittle

    Mickeylittle Former TX/Ipaq 210 User

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    So the 2nd unit is using the 2nd battery that failed with the 1st unit? Now why do you have to go and make things so difficult? Couldn't you just say something like, "I dunno, but maybe when I hooked the unit up via jumper cables to my Volvo's battery that wasn't the smartest move I made for the week!":D So I basically have no clue!
    Mick
     
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