2 media players

Discussion in 'Multimedia (Palm OS)' started by gambolio, Jul 1, 2009.

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  1. gambolio

    gambolio Mobile Enthusiast

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    I have TCPMP with the codecs for Palm TX and then I bought Kinoma 4EX just to be comprehensive. But I have problems with both running my videos. With Kinoma, I get a message displayed on the status bar that says, "This version of audio not supported". Plus the video stream sputters-moves super slowly. With TCPMP, it plays but in some places the audio is choppy and image movements are blurry(such as when a hand is waved). Also when I go into the options menu, it shows the number of frames played and number of dropped frames. The dropped frames are half the number of played frames. Why is that and what can I do about it?:confused:
  2. jigwashere

    jigwashere Life is a circus!

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    Sorry you're having problems.

    Kinoma Player 4EX is good at somethings, but probably isn't the best choice for your movies. Focus on TCPMP.

    Can you tell us where you're getting the videos? How are they encoded? There have been numerous threads about encoding videos for TCPMP, so you might look at some of them. PocketDivXEncoder is a good, free tool, that works for quite a few of us.
  3. Varjak

    Varjak Newbie

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    I seem to remember you posted similarly awhile back, but never provided details. It's hard to help if we don't have the basic facts. (In looking up stuff for my post, I found that you posted the same thing on June 14th and never went back to the thread I guess).

    I have both of the players you list as well, and have found them to be very good.

    With regard to audio, that is a more rare problem from what I can tell; but some have mentioned problems with videos that use the 3GP container format.

    With regard to video, it simply seems that you are encoding (or trying to play other encoded content) using parameters that are too demanding for either player. I've only really had success using HandBrake and encoding to MP4/AC3+AAC (when that audio track is available). I have NOT had success with H.264/AVC despite the fact that TCPMP can (theoretically) handle it. Nothing I've tried has resulted in a usable file, and no one here has definitively said they get good H.264 results either (it comes up from time to time). MP4 yields bigger files but runs well; H.264 (theoretically) is more demanding on processors but results in smaller files. I tend to use a high sample rate, which exacerbates the file size issue; but they run find on my LifeDrive.

    If you like, I can go and find the parameters I've found useful on HandBrake.
  4. raspabalsa

    raspabalsa Brain stuck BogoMipping

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    It all depends on the codecs and bitrates you're using. What I recommend you to do is test different encoding settings until you find the best balance between file size, performance, and audio/video quality. We can recommend settings, but what looks fine for me may not be the same for you. As an idea, I encode my movies using XviD and MP3. I encode at between 350kbps to 600kbps for video. The lower limit is for TV movies, where you don't see much panning and panoramic scenes. The higher limit is for action films, especially epics, which tend to use a lot of panoramic scenes, and fast-changing action (LOTR, 300, etc). I almost always use 96kbps for audio, which is not the best quality, but sounds good enough for my ears when played through my headphones.

    If your TX is dropping frames, then you're using too high a video bitrate. You can either encode to lower bitrates or overclock your TX. My TX can run about 350kbps video + 96kbps audio at stock speed (312MHz), but I have to overclock it up to 520MHz to run 600 kbps video + 96kbps audio. Overclocking (with Warpspeed) is perfectly safe as long as you just change the CPU speed and leave the Bus speed alone. Changing the Bus speed may crash your TX or even freeze it. At the settings mentioned above, using overclocking when needed, I get zero dropped frames for my movies.

    Here are some threads you can read about encoding:

    Settings: Palm TX & PocketDivX Encoder

    what encoder do you use?
  5. gambolio

    gambolio Mobile Enthusiast

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    Well, I am using 96kb for my audio too.The encoder I had am using is AVC. I lowered the frame rate for Kinoma to the absolute minimum but apparently it was still too high.
    Before that I was using a converter called 'ConvertVOBtoAVI' and I was converting to MPEG-4 and aac(mp3 for Kinoma). That played ok on TCPMP but got nothing on Kinoma. I will try to overclock the processor at the speed suggested(520)-while skipping the bus and see if that helps. I really want to use the AVC encoder because that wasn't free. However, I may have to try the Xvid encoder if all else fails. I assume two pass encoding means that you use the same variables the second time you encode the video. Thanks for trying to help but I just may be hopeless.
  6. raspabalsa

    raspabalsa Brain stuck BogoMipping

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    Ah, if you want to use AVC then I'm clueless, since I haven't used this codec. But I've read that TCPMP has trouble with that codec. Search the forums, other members (Varjak among them) have played with this codec.

    Hopeless? Hardly, I think. There are several other codecs you can use for your videos. With the settings I use, my videos look excellent on my TX and acceptable on my PC in fullscreen, so I see no need to change to another codec. Better select a couple of movies with different video characteristics (i.e.: TV vs widescreen, action vs drama, etc) and play with codecs and bitrates until you're satisfied with results. Then do the bulk of your encodings. The testing is tedious and annoying, but it helps a lot, because on your next encodings you simply apply the results, no need to guess or test again.

    When you use two-pass encoding, you just set the target bitrates. These are used on both passes, although the second pass uses variable bitrate, increasing and decreasing it according to the needs of the video. The first pass is used just to analyze the video and determine the best bitrate on a per-frame basis.

    I notice that in your previous post you mention frame rate. This is not the same as video bitrate. You can have a video with low framerate, but with such a high bitrate that the TX will still stutter. Besides, lowering framerate below 20fps yields unacceptable results (IMO), which may be part of what you already notices. The bitrate is a measure of the amount of data allocated to every frame: the lower the bitrate, the less amount of data is used to describe a given frame, and this means less quality. I prefer to lower bitrate, not framerate, because I found in my early tests that the loss of quality associated with lower bitrates is less than the loss of quality when lowering framerate. But as I've said before, these are just my personal preferences :)
  7. Varjak

    Varjak Newbie

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    gambolio, as I stated above, I don't think anyone has really succeeded in getting AVC/H.264 to work. Someone posted a very technical explanation that the TX (and LifeDrive) only handle a very crude form of AVC. I have an LD, which is faster than a TX in processor speed and even the most basic video at the lowest rates doesn't play. It's the format, not the processor (I'm 95+% sure). Given that SD card capacities (with the Dmitry utility) are going to 32, 64, and maybe even higher, sticking to MP4 might make the most sense.
  8. gambolio

    gambolio Mobile Enthusiast

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    Ok, maybe I will be forced to corral the Kinoma Producer EX software to get where I want to go with Player 4EX because when I try to play youtube videos I get the picture but no sound because it says 'unsupported audio format AMR'. How do I convert the youtubes so that audio will play? The audio on Kinoma says it's 3gp for the youtube file. What gives? Cornfused again!
  9. raspabalsa

    raspabalsa Brain stuck BogoMipping

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    I don't know about Kinoma, but YouTube videos are played very well on CorePlayer. This is an expensive program, there is no shareware version (you have to buy it right away, before trying it), but it's very much worth the cost IMO. Also, CorePlayer can support AVIs with two audio streams (TCPMP can't).
  10. jigwashere

    jigwashere Life is a circus!

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    I own a previous version of Kinoma Producer and trialed a more recent version. Try before you buy!!! There's tons of free software for video conversion, so I wouldn't recommend it.

    YouTube videos play well on Kinoma Player 4EX, which you own. I don't understand the problem you're having.
  11. Varjak

    Varjak Newbie

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    Jig, someone else (I believe) mentioned that videos with AMR-coded video caused a problem on some players (I don't remember all the permutations). I believe AMR is not often used as an audio format. It's meant for speech and is low quality. It's associated with certain cellphone video as part of the 3GPP standard. I would guess that similar content to the video Gambolio wants is available with a better audio component.

    Gambolio, I'd recommend searching BH for 'AMR.' Also, if you'd like, post the specific YouTube video you are interested in. I'll see if it works on my Kinoma 4EX installation.
  12. raspabalsa

    raspabalsa Brain stuck BogoMipping

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    I've read similar things about the AMR codec. I believe it's mostly used by digital voice recorders, not optimized for, say, movies or music.
  13. Haisook

    Haisook Med Student

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    Use a framerate of 15 fps (~20 max) and a bitrate of less than 700 kbps for best results.
  14. suprelizardx

    suprelizardx Newbie

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    I am having a problem with kinoma to send me my access code so I can open 4. I sent my info and they won't email me back what should I do?
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