Google's war on WP8

[Mitlov]

October 29, 2012: official release of WP8.

November 2012: Most first-gen WP8 devices hit stores.

December 14, 2012: Google announces the removal of support for Exchange ActiveSync with Gmail, making it much harder to sync mail, contacts, and calendar on a WP8 phone. This ability had previously existed on WP7 and WP8 phones.

January 2, 2013: Microsoft announces that its attempt to release an official YouTube app for WP has been hampered by Google refusing MS access to YouTube metadata. Without this information, the app would not be able to search video categories, find favorites, and view video ratings. Google offers Apple access to this metadata but will not extend access to Microsoft.

January 4, 2013: Windows Phone users begin reporting en masse that they are blocked from accessing google maps on their phones; the URL now redirects them to google's main page. They previously could access google maps. (I can confirm both that I used to be able to and no longer can on my WP7 phone).

so...

Thoughts? Do you think this is legitimate competition between competitors? Anti-competitive behavior? A series of coincidences instead of an intentional campaign?

[Hook]

Congratulations on post 666.

I don't know, honestly, but it certainly could be Google undercutting MS. It's always hard to tell with Google because they are kind of this way with their own devs, like not releasing APIs (and their description documents) to their own developers and then suddenly changing how those APIs work. Another thing they like to do is decide something requires too much of them in customer support-- I suspect the EAS move falls in that category.

So while I wouldn't rule out anti-competative behavior, I also would yet rule out they just changed the URL and didn't tell anyone. I hope they fix the access stuff. It is in their own best interest to have everything working on all platforms.

[Drillbit]

1. Google has to pay Microsoft licensing fees to use Active Exchange Sync to supply GMail. Why doesn't Microsoft just use DAV and CDAV on their phones? That's industry standard. So maybe Microsoft can offer not to charge Google for using Exchange Sync for GMail?

2. Apple paid Google for the Youtube metadata with a licensing fee. Will Microsoft do the same? Should note that even the Apple provided Youtube app doesn't do all the functionality of an original Youtube app. Likewise, Facebook and Twitter doesn't supply all their APIs and metadata to third parties. which is why you find functionality in Facebook and Twitter that you don't find in third party apps or manufacturer supplied skins or integration apps.

3 Google Maps can only be previously accessed by Windows Phone but only for rendering. Touch controls and other things didn't work. That is verified by Windows Phone users. In fact for Windows 8, that exactly is how it works. Maps render, and you use the mouse to control it. Except in Windows Phone, you are using Touch instead of the Mouse. So the Touch doesn't work. Google Maps Mobile is intended to be used for Webkit browsers (used by iOS, Blackberry and Android, not to mention Symbian, Meego, Bada, Tizen and etc,.). Because the mobile Maps doesn't work as it should on IE, which is always a twisted, non industry standard browser anyway, Google directed to another Google site that works at least for IE and recommends local places. But heck if Microsoft wants Google Maps to work on IE, it better supply some data for Google for the finer elements of how the touch controls can work. Not only that, but the browser has to be able to locally track the user. Or allow a Webkit browser to be installed on Windows Phone.

[Mitlov]

Congratulations on post 666.

I don't know, honestly, but it certainly could be Google undercutting MS. It's always hard to tell with Google because they are kind of this way with their own devs, like not releasing APIs (and their description documents) to their own developers and then suddenly changing how those APIs work. Another thing they like to do is decide something requires too much of them in customer support-- I suspect the EAS move falls in that category.

So while I wouldn't rule out anti-competative behavior, I also would yet rule out they just changed the URL and didn't tell anyone. I hope they fix the access stuff. It is in their own best interest to have everything working on all platforms.

Some more about the maps thing makes this sound very intentional. Google claimed that this was because IE for WP wasn't a WebKit browser, but...

Google's official response -- as we pointed out yesterday -- is that the decision to redirect users away from Google Maps on Windows Phone devices is a choice Google has made. That's because it has optimized the mobile version of its Maps website for browsers that use the WebKit rendering engine. WebKit is the rendering engine that Apple, Google, RIM and many others use on their mobile browsers. Meanwhile, Microsoft uses the Trident rendering engine for Internet Explorer on the desktop and mobile.
...
As many users have pointed out, Google Maps works just fine on Internet Explorer for the desktop. Microsoft's official comment is that Internet Explorer 10 uses the same rendering engine as Internet Explorer on Windows Phone 8. If IE 10 can render a page, Windows Phone 8 should be able to render that page equally well. [And IE 10 for the desktop can render Google Maps.]
...
Interestingly, Firefox for Android and the FirefoxOS simulator both work with Google Maps -- at least for now. This is despite the fact that Firefox uses the Gecko rendering engine, not WebKit.

http://mashable.com/2013/01/05/googl...windows-phone/

[Mitlov]

3 Google Maps can only be previously accessed by Windows Phone but only for rendering. Touch controls and other things didn't work. That is verified by Windows Phone users. In fact for Windows 8, that exactly is how it works. Maps render, and you use the mouse to control it. Except in Windows Phone, you are using Touch instead of the Mouse. So the Touch doesn't work.

Not accurate: I can control Google Maps just fine with IE 10 Metro and touch only with my Vaio Duo 11. Even multi-finger gestures like pinch-to-zoom work.

2. Apple paid Google for the Youtube metadata with a licensing fee. Will Microsoft do the same?

From MS's press release, it sure sounds like Google's policy was "not at any price," not "sure, you just have to pay the normal fee but you're refusing to do so." And Google's response statement was that if WP users wanted to view YouTube, they could do it through the browser...not that Microsoft was refusing to pay a routine licensing fee.

[Drillbit]

Still accurate. Windows Phone users have reported previously that Google Maps did render, but touch controls didn't work. So obviously there are some changes in the way IE 10 on Windows 8 and WP8, and Microsoft better supply that data to Google.

[JRakes]

All I see is another corporate p!ssing contest, all sides stabbing at the others and nobody really "winning." And the only real losers, as is always the case, are the consumers / users.

Round and round and round it goes... Again. And again. And again...

It would be quite funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

[Mitlov]

Still accurate. Windows Phone users have reported previously that Google Maps did render, but touch controls didn't work. So obviously there are some changes in the way IE 10 on Windows 8 and WP8, and Microsoft better supply that data to Google.

Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 both use IE10, which is basically the same under the hood. If touch works on a Windows 8 tablet, it should work on a WP8 phone as well. What's your source that touch didn't work on Windows Phone?

If the problem is just IE9, it's interesting that Google waited two years before blocking Google Maps for Windows Phone. They never blocked the site for WP7 users until after the release of WP8.

[Mitlov]

All I see is another corporate p!ssing contest, all sides stabbing at the others and nobody really "winning." And the only real losers, as is always the case, are the consumers / users.

Round and round and round it goes... Again. And again. And again...

It would be quite funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

I don't see Microsoft doing anything that makes it more difficult for their users to access Google services as well. To the contrary, they've made SmartGlass available on Android and are bringing Xbox Music to Android as well. I do see Google taking steps to make users of Google services (such as gmail and google maps and youtube) harder to adopt WP8 phones instead of Android phones.

Microsoft has said mean things about Google, complaining about the FTC settlement with Google and releasing the "Gmail Man" and "Scroogled" ads, but I see media campaigns as very different than engineering in barriers to accessing services.

[Drillbit]

Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8 both use IE10, which is basically the same under the hood. If touch works on a Windows 8 tablet, it should work on a WP8 phone as well. What's your source that touch didn't work on Windows Phone?

If the problem is just IE9, it's interesting that Google waited two years before blocking Google Maps for Windows Phone. They never blocked the site for WP7 users until after the release of WP8.

Mobile and desktop are not always the same, regardless of the name of the browser. Chrome on Android and Chrome on Windows are far from the same either. So is Firebox on desktop and Firefox on mobile. Even if they use the same version number.

The mobile site of Google Maps is optimized for Webkit, unlike the desktop version. Who uses Webkit? Apple, Blackberry, Google Android, Blackberry 7 and above, Symbian, WebOS, Bada, Tizen, Meego. Just about everyone except Windows Phone.

Touch controls on Windows Phone 7 never properly worked on Google Maps.