Hook's next cloud experiment-- Google redux. Questions.

[Hook]

Okay, in another brilliant demonstration of HISS (Hook Is Slow Sometimes), for the longest time I thought "Goo sync" and "Google Sync" referred to the same thing.

I'm thinking of playing around with syncing to Google again for calendar and contacts. I used Goo sync before. I didn't stay with it, but not because of any real problems with Goo sync. I've also been looking at CompanionLink for Google which relies on Google Sync and Mail for Exchange on my Nokia (which seems odd since I'm not using this for email-- then again, I've never really understood what Microsoft Exchange encompasses either).

What I want to try (again, one of my experiments to learn something-- may not be something I go with in the long run) is syncing to both phone and laptop without directly connecting the two. Thus I need Outlook to sync with Google and my Nokia to Sync with Google, all OTA, and end up with the same information on laptop, phone and web.

Anyone know enough about both of these to give relative pros and cons. Is there another solution involving Google I am missing? If I am not doing email, is there any reason to use (and pay for) something like Road Sync?

One thing that concerns me with Google sync is that it sounds like it does push. As insane as it may sound, I would rather keep syncing manual/pull because I spend 9 hours a day in a building with no cell or wifi and I'd like my phone not to keep looking for something that is not going to happen. At work, I might add new information on the phone or, because I am at a desktop a lot, I may just open up Google and update their calendar or Gmail contacts. Then, when I am out and about I can sync the phone with the web and when I am home update Outlook OTA as well.

I really wish Ovi services were together enough that I could do this with them, but they don't provide the Outlook piece or release the information I could use to make it work.

I'm doing this as an experiment because I think this is where all the platforms are going. It's going to be this or web based Outlook 2010, but I think Google will remain the more universal solution which can probably be used wherever I migrate in the future. I don't mind cloud solutions as long as they provide me local data (in this case via Outlook).

So, anyone out there have a line on this?

[hal]

Okay, in another brilliant demonstration of HISS (Hook Is Slow Sometimes), for the longest time I thought "Goo sync" and "Google Sync" referred to the same thing.

I wasn't even aware of said difference either. So I reckon your acronym also applies to me

I'm thinking of playing around with syncing to Google again for calendar and contacts. I used Goo sync before. I didn't stay with it, but not because of any real problems with Goo sync. I've also been looking at CompanionLink for Google which relies on Google Sync and Mail for Exchange on my Nokia (which seems odd since I'm not using this for email-- then again, I've never really understood what Microsoft Exchange encompasses either).

Google has had the good sense of splitting its OTA channels in order that people (like some Hook around) can choose what to sync to without getting hit by the proverbial avalanche. In another example, remember that a Palm device is excited to receive all the conduits imagined, until a hotsync lasts half an hour and you are not amused anymore. OK, let's say that for one Google offers sync services reasonably parsed one from each other. You activate one, and you get a conduit (or several, but dedicated to a monographic service).

What is Microsoft Exchange? In a sentence, a hotsync manager that talks to a corporate server. You configure GMail to deliver to your device (doing what a specific device needs), and GMail delivers, cause it's got the resources to do so (namely, transport services). And the same thing with Yahoo! and HotMail and lots of email service providers. But, what happens when email has to come from a server not so featured like those in the big email monsters? A corporate server can be (you know) nothing but a fat desktop computer in a room, connected to a hub and all that. Microsoft Exchange is a resource to enable email transport services within the corporate LAN (inbounds email), and transport services that can slither through the Internet to reach a remote client (outbounds email). Now, Microsoft Exchange has the advantage that it can deliver more than email, like access to shared folders in the server, containing shared address books, or shared calendars, etc. OTOH, it has the disadvantage that said public folders access is handcuffed to the email thing, so whether the company places public info in public folders or not, Microsoft Exchange enables those channels and hogs the remote visit. It's a very effective resource, but it sports the Microsoft signature: it's designed to take over the device's resources when it's on.

What I want to try (again, one of my experiments to learn something-- may not be something I go with in the long run) is syncing to both phone and laptop without directly connecting the two. Thus I need Outlook to sync with Google and my Nokia to Sync with Google, all OTA, and end up with the same information on laptop, phone and web.

Actually, as for email, this dual sync method you're pursuing to achieve is the current trend. The days of Versamail talking to Outlook I think are gone. Some things end up for a reason, I reckon.

Anyone know enough about both of these to give relative pros and cons. Is there another solution involving Google I am missing? If I am not doing email, is there any reason to use (and pay for) something like Road Sync?

I think the single reason why you would end up paying for Road Sync is for reliability of service. But, as your quest is driven from curiosity, and not from an occupational need, I think you won't have to. The pros of following the "Y" sync approach is that you don't favor clash of data among laptop and mobile, and with some practice, data in both devices can be identical without too much work; provided of course, that each device has a reliable sync resource to itself to talk to email and PIM data and etc. If the latter is accomplished, most of the working framework relies on best practices; like setting the email client in the mobile device to leave a copy of the messages in the server, and unchecking that very feature in the laptop's email client. As for PIM data, again, best practices are to establish an orderly fashion of sync, just as if you were syncing for instance two Palm OS devices to the same desktop, but now syncing a mobile and a laptop to a remote server. IME, the main issues arise from the use of two different platforms to access the very same data; it's like syncing a Palm OS device and a Symbian device, in whatever orderly fashion, to the same Outlook installation: sooner or later, the features (or lack thereof) of one platform will affect the data in the other. But if you attain your data to basic features, nothing really terrible may happen.

One thing that concerns me with Google sync is that it sounds like it does push. As insane as it may sound, I would rather keep syncing manual/pull because I spend 9 hours a day in a building with no cell or wifi and I'd like my phone not to keep looking for something that is not going to happen. At work, I might add new information on the phone or, because I am at a desktop a lot, I may just open up Google and update their calendar or Gmail contacts. Then, when I am out and about I can sync the phone with the web and when I am home update Outlook OTA as well.

I am not an expert, but AFAIK, Google only wishes to do push. If you set your Google account for POP access, it won't do push. But if you set it for IMAP, it may try to. Push works better in IMAP and sometimes in MAPI setups. POP doesn't do push that good cause it depends more on the device's query (hence, it's pull) than on the server's query. Now, remember that POP access involves a server drainage: you request your email and it'll come in; it's effective but you won't know there's more till the next query (unless Google has email alerts, which I don't know if it does). IMAP depends on an online visit to your mailbox, so it's more real-time, but it also depends on more airtime consumption if you're doing so from the mobile device.

As for your device trying to pull anything, does it have an option to turn the antenna off? I mean, at work you can't access the Net or make a phone call anyway.

I really wish Ovi services were together enough that I could do this with them, but they don't provide the Outlook piece or release the information I could use to make it work.

For all practical case, Ovi is still in diapers. Not so long ago, it was MoSh and it was nothing but Nokia's indoor attempt to have a mix of social networking and store in the same site (I signed for it in 2005, when it was announced in the Forum Nokia newsletter). Up to now, the recent Nokia purchases like IntelliSync and etc., are yet to be put together in a working framework with Ovi on one side of the line and Symbian in the other. But I reckon it will be a good while until they make all its services work.

I'm doing this as an experiment because I think this is where all the platforms are going. It's going to be this or web based Outlook 2010, but I think Google will remain the more universal solution which can probably be used wherever I migrate in the future. I don't mind cloud solutions as long as they provide me local data (in this case via Outlook).

Very wise on your behalf. OK, it's just a toddling exercise. But I agree, either we learn about all these features now, or in three years we're gonna feel like running on skates when everybody else is already wearing jetpacks.

[Drillbit]

I use Google Sync all the time. On Symbian, Windows Mobile and iPhone you don't need an app but you need to enter certain information on Mail for Exchange.

On Blackberry, Google Sync has an app form and works with BIS. All you need is your gmail login and password.

On Android, Google Sync has no form and simply just works transparently with the OS.

Right now I sync contacts and calendar information on my Blackberry, Android and iPod Touch wirelessly. I enter a new contact on any one of my devices and the other two will reflect the change. I can manually sync but I already set my Blackberry to sync at least once a day and the iPod Touch seems to have its own schedule for auto sync. It's easy to set this up on Nokia as well so long as you have Mail for Exchange on the phone, though not all Nokias have this. But its likely your N and E series will have this.

[Antoine Wright]

Interesting experiment. Will be listening and learning from you on this one.
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With Nokia's Mobile Web Server's gateway service now shut down, I really miss the ability to pull up my device's PIM and Messaging apps right from any browser. I've been thinking of trying something that I believe just might work:

- using the Mobile Web Server in local mode while having the attending laptop connected to it via JoikuSpot (ad-hoc Wi-Fi)

In this way, I'd still have the kind of PIM access that you are talking about having here Hook; except that I'd be doing it over my own connection (should be more secure that way).

Downsides are that I'd need to connect the attending laptop to the newly connected Wi-Fi hotspot - with authentication - every time that I wanted to access it like this.

I believe that I was able to connect to the MWS like this before, I just don't remember. Ah well, its worth a try to see. The idea of a dedicated PIM app - even in an offline mode, seems such a step backward to me.
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EDIT/ADD: Wouldn't you know, it worked. Turned on MWS in local mode, then ran JoikuSpot and connected laptop to its AP. Then simply went to the IP addy that JoikuSpot assigned my device and was able to view my mobile web server and interact with my mobile.

Its an unfortunate hack, but a means towards having that personal cloud back.

Sorry i hijacked the thread Hook; you've got more devices to keep in sync than I. Wonder why you've not tried a hosted Exchange (they are free to really cheap these days and you can sync just about everything to them).

[Hook]

@hal Keep in mind, I'm not looking for email. I already have that covered, my own email server set up on my friend's Linux box (he does Linux IT for a living) in RI with imap, etc. This is just about calendar and contacts.

@AW Nice trick with MWS, but that seems like more trouble than using the USB cable. I dont use a hosted exchange server because a)as I said, I don't quite understand what they are and b) they seem email centric to me and I don't need email. I just want calendar and contacts. It seems like if I set these up with either Goosync (uses Funambol for Outlook) or Companionlink+Google Sync, I can probably take this setup to any future platform without much fuss or bother. All solutions cost $.

[brickman65]

Hook. Have you look at Neuvasync? I think this is what you are looking for? I know a lot of people use this for the iPhone that are really into Google and do not want to use Mobile Me. From the reviews I have read it acts just like MoMe which is exactly what you described.

Worth a look.

[Hook]

Hook. Have you look at Neuvasync? I think this is what you are looking for? I know a lot of people use this for the iPhone that are really into Google and do not want to use Mobile Me. From the reviews I have read it acts just like MoMe which is exactly what you described.

Worth a look.

Thanks, Brick.

Trouble is, it doesn't do the Outlook piece. Ovi does just fine if all I want is to sync my Nokia to a cloud I'm looking to keep my calendar and contacts manually synced between my phone and Outlook without a cable by having both OTA sync to the same cloud.

[brickman65]

Can Outlook not sync OTA with Google?? Sorry but I have not used Outlook in years. Kinda rusty.

[Hook]

Can Outlook not sync OTA with Google?? Sorry but I have not used Outlook in years. Kinda rusty.

Not that I know of. As far as I know, syncing with anything requires some sort of conduit or plugin. Nokia PC Suite does it via USB cable, Goosync uses a Funambol plugin. My guess is, they would never g out of their way to make sync with google easy.

[Hook]

Actually, digging deeper, it does look like I can sync google calendar with Outlook, but it looks like contacts in gmail can only go import and export, not syncing with Outlook.

Since it has a fully functional 14 day free trial, I am probably going to give the Companionlink+google sync setup a try and see how it goes.