Hook's next cloud experiment-- Google redux. Questions.

[Drillbit]

Ah, but there is a BIG difference: Each of those things actually provides a tangible service or product that I use or have a need for. And each of those has proven, in my experience, to be extremely reliable. Exceptions made for extreme weather conditions affecting some utilities, of course, but it should be noted that there was NO cell service, at all, for anyone, the last time I had a snowstorm-induced power outage. During that time, however, I had ALL of my data and ALL of my functionality with my laptop and "PDA." I even synced some updated info.

No differently from the Cloud since Clouds do deliver service and for many years---Amazon, eBay, Youtube, Flickr, iTunes.

How many times did I have my water interrupted so the public works agency can repair a broken water pipe caused by earthquake aftershocks?

How many homes have I seen destroyed by typhoons, roofs blown off, PCs water damaged? Ever seen the floods that hit the Philippines last October 2009?

As for my local PC: I've had one hard drive failure in 15 years. I recovered with my LOCAL backups. I lost NO data. I had NO data corrupted. I've never had a PC virus. I've never had a sync problem using my trusty USB cable. And if I'm not "connected," I still have 100% functionality on my laptop for anything except surfing the 'net or email, either of which would be an inconvenience, at most.

Speak for yourself, since I often end up as "tech support" for a lot more people than I hoped for. I have seen a lot of data corrupted, hard disks that fail --- anyone experienced with hard drive mechanics will tell you its not if but when a hard drive will fail. I have seen my share of blue screens and Windows diagnostics running scandisks for disk errors.

As for you having a troublefree virus environment, speak for yourself. I'm pretty sure the experience of others--and a lot of them---are not like yours. if every PC user's experience is trouble free, Microsoft won't be in hot water patching one botnet after another.

I'm happy for your new Eris. But I honestly can't imagine why I'd want gMail or Facebook synced immediately. (I have no use whatsoever for "email on the go" and even less for Facebook, which is why I don't even have an account there.) Contacts, yes. Along with my calendar (including integrated tasks.) Complete with all of my configurations and settings, which would have to mimic my laptop. It took me weeks to get those things set up on my new device last fall. It's not an exercise I care to repeat more than once every few years. If I had multiple devices, they would all have to have the same look and feel and functionality. (And that begs the question of why I'd have multiple devices.) Then there are my data files, along with the software to actually use them.

I find it hard to believe that if I walked into Best Buy and plopped down my cash for the biggest, baddest device on the market, I'd be anywhere near functional with it within an hour, cloud or no cloud connection, unless all I wanted was some social networking stuff. Somebody please prove me wrong.

I'm honestly not trying to argue or badger - It just seems there's precious little acknowledgement that some of us are simply looking for the functionality that suits our personal uses, yet is simple / straightforward and reliable. The connected / cloud approach is not it, at this point, for some of us, try as we might.

Can't imagine what's the advantage of immediately synching gmail? I can and do use gmail like SMS---send, receive, send, receive. Internationally across friends on different continents. Without the long distance charges.

Not having Facebook sync? I can tell you its darn important to remember birthdays of friends and your contacts. Anyone who is in business and have professional careers can tell you the importance of socializing. Simple things like remembering birthdays and responding to social events can make a huge difference on how people view of you.

The Droid Eris is hardly the biggest and baddest. Its like the Droid's and Nexus One's little brother. The Volkswagen of Androids. A mass market Android aka smartphone. I've seen people used this phone with no technical background at all, and it still works very well like a neat featurephone.

It took me about one to two minutes to set up the most essential functions on my Droid Eris---functioning contacts and Gmail, another minute setting up Facebook, mainly just doing logins. Then when I went home, I just installed my favorite apps. Before going home, stopped over a restaurant and used the new phone to call family what they want for dinner. And while waiting for the food, managed to send out the first tweets from the phone.

In my experience, I got phones lost. Lost contacts there, since I forgot to desktop sync. Got iPod Touches stolen, which had my email contacts there. I have had my Windows Mobile device, an HTC Diamond, failed to boot up TouchFlo and in so doing, also failed to boot up my contacts information as well. I also had my Blackberry do a software 552 error, in which case the OS fails to load and the phone is hosed until you need to clear something that prevents it from booting. My HP laptop where I also stored my contacts and other information, had a number of disk scans to resolve read and write errors on the hard drive. And my Acer netbook---dead batteries.

Since then I have eradicated my terrestrial vulnerabilities---Windows Mobile and Blackberry contacts now all Cloud synced and ready to redeploy on any phone. If I lost my baggage and my phone in a foreign country, I can for example, simply buy off an iPod Touch from any electronics store, find a wifi spot, enter some settings and get my entire contacts system back.

If it takes that long (weeks) to set up your device, you got the wrong device.

[JRakes]

But I WAS speaking for myself. I understand others' uses of their devices, but that doesn't seem to be a reciprocal arrangement. I work in a professional career, but it doesn't hinge on my tweeting - It hinges on my work performance. Appropriate business communications are certainly important, but NO career I've ever been in has been influenced by Facebook or Twitter. Well, except a couple of office girls who are on the verge of losing their jobs because they can't stop playing when they should be doing the work for which I'm paying them.

I don't think I got the wrong device - I think I use my device differently. For me, it's not a social networking / party favor. It's a work tool. And I don't work in the entertainment industry...

It sounds, to me, as if I simply take a more measured, controlled approach to my tools. I don't flit from device to device, ever in search of the next great thing. I simply want the best tool for the job. Then I maintain it appropriately and keep up with it. To be perfectly honest, I usually laugh at folks who "lose" a phone or such, thinking it's obviously not THAT important a tool for them. Then the first thing I hear is "I can't send 'such-and-such' a text about what 'so-and-so' did this morning!" Who cares - Shoulda been working, anyway.

Similar for PC problems. Any device can and might fail. Any device is more likely NOT to with appropriate care and maintenance. Any device is more likely to with neglect and abuse. And I'm not just talking about electronics.

While some of us are frustrated with the results of using newer technologies and capabilities to our advantage, either because they don't fill a need or work in a useful manner, that doesn't mean we don't recognize that others can and do use those things. But please don't suggest that those other folks' uses are good for the rest of us. I could easily make similar suggestions from my perspective. And the masses would run screaming.

[Mi An]

As for my local PC: I've had one hard drive failure in 15 years. I recovered with my LOCAL backups. I lost NO data. I had NO data corrupted. I've never had a PC virus. I've never had a sync problem using my trusty USB cable. And if I'm not "connected," I still have 100% functionality on my laptop for anything except surfing the 'net or email, either of which would be an inconvenience, at most.

Speak for yourself, since I often end up as "tech support" for a lot more people than I hoped for. I have seen a lot of data corrupted, hard disks that fail --- anyone experienced with hard drive mechanics will tell you its not if but when a hard drive will fail. I have seen my share of blue screens and Windows diagnostics running scandisks for disk errors.

As for you having a troublefree virus environment, speak for yourself. I'm pretty sure the experience of others--and a lot of them---are not like yours. if every PC user's experience is trouble free, Microsoft won't be in hot water patching one botnet after another.

The biggest vulnerability in any computer system, home or professional, are the people who use it. If one is not inclined to open attachments offering scantily clad pics of various celebrities from strangers, one's computer's safety automatically increases dramatically over the average user's. If one is wary of russian website addresses, another boost. If a home user just generally has common sense, they enter the highest echelons of security because they aren't a specific target (hackers who aren't gov't operated prefer easy prey) and basic precautions take them out of the easy prey general category.

If it's 2010 and one is still using Internet Explorer 6, their computer's risk level rises substantially -- not just because they are using an old browser, but because it indicates their overall awareness of security risks is non-existent. One reason to target that browser is it's old and there's been plenty of time to ID its issues; a bigger reason is that people who are still using it are easy prey.

Similar calculus occurs with data. If a home user doesn't want to lose it, basic, inexpensive precautions can prevent the loss to an almost certain degree. Data that's more important can be treated differently and protected to an even greater degree, again, with simple inexpensive options.

If it takes that long (weeks) to set up your device, you got the wrong device.

Speak for yourself?

[Hook]

Thanks, Mi An. Wish zippy was still around.

[RickAgresta]

Thanks, Mi An. Wish zippy was still around.

yeah, what Hook said....zippy2010.pngzippy2010.pngzippy2010.pngzippy2010.pngzippy2010.png

[Varjak]

What? At least your power company knows your power consumption, and your water company knows your water consumption through various meters. Then they're all tied to government agencies and databases. Then lets go with the police, they got your traffic and crime records, then your bank has your credit records, and all of them can be potentially tied to create a profile of your power, water, credit card, bank finances, credit rating, criminal history, traffic record, medical record, social security, tax records, etc,. And yes, credit cards is a good analogy of cloud use.

You seem to confuse the simple, compartmentalized keeping of records discretely by each service, with the unbelievable leverage that a 'cloud provider' would have. They don't just see your electric bill (say from e-mail invoices or notices); but your police records, your possible membership in AA, your bank and credit card info, etc. It's the ability to CONNECT all this info together (easy, since it's all stored together) that makes it both powerful and daunting.

And I didn't say anything about credit cards (which are, indeed, much more closely analogous to what we're talking about (again because they may aggregate all the info in the examples posited above by all of us). My reference was to those 'affinity' shopper cards that give you special discount prices when buying items in a particular grocery store.

Sorry, I'm with the majority here (unusually for me).

[Drillbit]

You seem to confuse the simple, compartmentalized keeping of records discretely by each service, with the unbelievable leverage that a 'cloud provider' would have. They don't just see your electric bill (say from e-mail invoices or notices); but your police records, your possible membership in AA, your bank and credit card info, etc. It's the ability to CONNECT all this info together (easy, since it's all stored together) that makes it both powerful and daunting.

No, I think you're confused here. The banks, the government, and most corporations are already Cloud. That ability to connect this altogether isn't something Google or Microsoft can, but something the government can.

And I didn't say anything about credit cards (which are, indeed, much more closely analogous to what we're talking about (again because they may aggregate all the info in the examples posited above by all of us). My reference was to those 'affinity' shopper cards that give you special discount prices when buying items in a particular grocery store.

Sorry, I'm with the majority here (unusually for me).

There are different levels and forms of cloud, from the simple ones like Evernote to the US government agencies. But all Cloud nonetheless.

I've been noting how my daughter uses Cloud apps in college---without me teaching her those things. She's way ahead of me in using Evernote and Google Apps, using them first and extensively before I did. Suddenly her fast booting Linux netbook becomes a business tool.

Evernote lets you take notes to a mobile, netbook or laptop, to be cloud synced, and then made accessible once again in any device. That' a big advantage when collecting notes on her netbook during class, then access the same notes on her Macbook at home, or without carrying the netbook or Macbook, discuss the notes with her friends either from her iPod Touch or from her Blackberry Storm.

She uses Google Apps like a collaboration writing tool with her team of schoolmates working on the same project.

Where she got those ideas? Not from me, but from her friends doing the same thing. A good indication how much rampant these things are. Evernote is available on iPhone, Android and Blackberry. Might be available on Symbian or Windows Mobile too but I have not checked these. On the iPhone, Android and Blackberry app stores, Evernote turned out to be a high ranked, high download app.

Another example. Meeting with salesmen and business representatives. I often see them using Salesforce on roaming Blackberries. Salesforce is the gold standard in business Cloud and is directed to CRM or Customer Relations Management. Among real estate professionals, I see the use of Google Maps on mobiles to find places and to provide them an overhead or satellite view of the property. With professionals in general, LinkedIn has become the social networking site for them.

For me, I use a lot of these things; Facebook, Twitter, eTrade, Yahoo Finance, Yahoo Messenger, Yahoo Mail, Google Finance, Bloomberg, Google Search, Google Maps, GMail, Hotmail, Google Reader---wow I can never get enough of Google Reader as an information aggregation system---all my mobiles have some sort of app that runs it. Also use a bit of PayPal, eBay and Amazon. Oh yeah, a lot of iTunes for my entertainment and when I play games, I am on XBox Live and now even on Playstation Network.

[hal]

yeah, what Hook said....

Mi An, ditto with Hook, ditto with RA

Sorry, I'm with the majority here (unusually for me).

When we're speaking of subjects that tile to opinions, the majority and the minority tile in totally unexpected manners. Here, you didn't place an opinion, you placed facts. Can't go against reason, can't go against facts. I'm also with you.

[RickAgresta]

No, I think you're confused here. The banks, the government, and most corporations are already Cloud. That ability to connect this altogether isn't something Google or Microsoft can, but something the government can.



There are different levels and forms of cloud, from the simple ones like Evernote to the US government agencies. But all Cloud nonetheless.

I've been noting how my daughter uses Cloud apps in college---without me teaching her those things. She's way ahead of me in using Evernote and Google Apps, using them first and extensively before I did. Suddenly her fast booting Linux netbook becomes a business tool.

Evernote lets you take notes to a mobile, netbook or laptop, to be cloud synced, and then made accessible once again in any device. That' a big advantage when collecting notes on her netbook during class, then access the same notes on her Macbook at home, or without carrying the netbook or Macbook, discuss the notes with her friends either from her iPod Touch or from her Blackberry Storm.

She uses Google Apps like a collaboration writing tool with her team of schoolmates working on the same project.

Where she got those ideas? Not from me, but from her friends doing the same thing. A good indication how much rampant these things are. Evernote is available on iPhone, Android and Blackberry. Might be available on Symbian or Windows Mobile too but I have not checked these. On the iPhone, Android and Blackberry app stores, Evernote turned out to be a high ranked, high download app.

Another example. Meeting with salesmen and business representatives. I often see them using Salesforce on roaming Blackberries. Salesforce is the gold standard in business Cloud and is directed to CRM or Customer Relations Management. Among real estate professionals, I see the use of Google Maps on mobiles to find places and to provide them an overhead or satellite view of the property. With professionals in general, LinkedIn has become the social networking site for them.

For me, I use a lot of these things; Facebook, Twitter, eTrade, Yahoo Finance, Yahoo Messenger, Yahoo Mail, Google Finance, Bloomberg, Google Search, Google Maps, GMail, Hotmail, Google Reader---wow I can never get enough of Google Reader as an information aggregation system---all my mobiles have some sort of app that runs it. Also use a bit of PayPal, eBay and Amazon. Oh yeah, a lot of iTunes for my entertainment and when I play games, I am on XBox Live and now even on Playstation Network.

pardon my bluntness, but is there actually a point you are trying to make, Drillbit? Because if there is, I'm having a difficult time parsing it out from amongst all your ramblings.

this thread was initiated by the OP to relate his experience with trying to use a specific set of hardware (his Nokia smartphone and a Windows PC) with a specific set of software -- please see the initial post(s) for that. and to poll the members of this forum for their opinions/recommendations towards his goal of being able to sync successfully, reliably, his contacts; that's all. In all honesty, I fail to see how your contributions are, well, actually contributing to his goal.

[Hook]

this thread was initiated by the OP to relate his experience with trying to use a specific set of hardware (his Nokia smartphone and a Windows PC) with a specific set of software -- please see the initial post(s) for that. and to poll the members of this forum for their opinions/recommendations towards his goal of being able to sync successfully, reliably, his contacts

Yes. And more, this problem had just evolved to an interesting point of discussion set off by QF and AW. Several pages ago AW said:

Well Hook, in some respects you are looking at the Internet as an HD, your content is fluid and the pipes are whatever tool you are using to sync it all. You are looking for your pipes to be smarter (call the President, I said something quotable) that's all. Your devices are just the output mechanism for the fluid. In a lot of respects, your use is making the case why hardware doesn't matter as much when it gives the user what they need.

To which I replied, yes, smarter pipes-- or maybe only one plumber.

What I would like to do, if I may be so bold (I realize even the OP doesn't get to dictate where the thread goes), is redirect this thread back to that point.

I would like to see if folks have insight on why these things mess up. I assume it is because one syncing program somehow undoes flags set in the gmail data base by the other syncing program. What might be needed to change this. Besides, as Apple does, having only one plummer.

Or maybe that is the only solution.

Maybe this is just the wall I have hit because I do insist on including Outlook and I am just stuck with it (which is what I suspect, which is why I threw up my hands).