Why get a Foleo?

[Curious Cat]

A large part of this post I copied from a post I made much earlier when everyone was rapid firing their comments about the Foleo in one of the Headline threads. I did get a couple of PM's that said they wondered the same thing but the post soon was buried deep by people making suggestions of what they thought Palm should have produced. This post ends in a question and I would appreciate any responses.

I think everyone is looking at this from the wrong perspective. We are all comparing the Foleo to a laptop and realistically it doesn’t compare well. Let’s assume that there is a market for this type of device. Some of you have responded how it would be nice to have a regular keyboard and a bigger screen while accessing the data on your PDA. IMO, looking at it from this perspective, buying a Foleo even makes less sense.

Let’s assume you own a nice powerful PDA. It might be a Palm, a Win-Mob device or other brand. For approximately $70 you can get a Bluetooth keyboard. What if you could connect your PDA to an external display? Maybe you can do this, maybe not but certainly PDA’s can be designed with a monitor out port. Now you have a full size keyboard and a big display but more importantly there is no need to synchronize anything, no need to buy additional applications or figure out what runs on this new operating system and it’s powerful enough to run video. You just plug it in and it works. There is no reason you couldn’t have a screen with a rechargeable battery built into it and even have the keyboard attached to the screen if necessary. This whole setup should cost less than $200 and be lighter than the Foleo. My whole point is that if the Foleo fits a need, there is or could be a much simpler, more functional, lighter and cheaper solution. You might respond that the Foleo can do some basic functions without the PDA but seriously, who is going to buy it just for that reason?

My question, is there anyone who is considering buying a Foleo that can tell me why they wouldn't rather have some device that sports a keyboard, battery and larger screen but runs directly from your smartphone instead of being a separate entity?

[Ervool]

Problem is that most PDA's don't have a monitor port, so your question is hypotetical.

I don't think we'll ever see a PDA-centric or smartphone-centric future, maybe an UMPC-centric one. Of course one could argue the lines between those products are fading and soon enough UMPCs will look very much like PDAs.

Trying to answer your question, I think I would preferr a wireless connection to my PDA or smartphone like the one offered by the Foleo than having to wrestle with cables and different devices for keyboard and video (with different electric transformers as well).

Then again, I can already do that with my laptop (wirelessly synching with my PDA and phone) and if the Foleo has to grow to include all the functionality of a laptop then the Foleo would become a laptop. I don't think Palm has the resources to compete with Sony or HP or Lenovo in their turf.

Maybe there is a small niche market for a device like the Foleo, but I don't think it will be at all significant.

Cheers,

[Hook]

The main attraction to me would be use anywhere stability. For instance, sitting on my lap on a train. If I don't have a surface to set it on like a desk, I can't use my UWK. Being able to do real writing at a moments notice , on any surface, and without the functional bloat of a laptop has some appeal to me.

I'm not sure it will get me to spend $600, but if I had it to spend, it could drive me to this solution rather than a laptop.

Again, I am not saying I'm going to get this-- I really have to see what it is when it exists. But I lke the idea.

[maceyr]

I'm very perplexed by the Foleo and what it really does. If the Foleo is the solution to having a bigger keyboard an a bigger screen, the keyboard can easily be solved by a wireless BT or IR keyboard and the screen, how about allowing the Treo or whatever new model to be able to "project" the screen or whatever you see on the Treo to a projection screen or even a white wall? Obviously, there should be some kind of special setting so that we're not still viewing in the 320x320 resolution only blown up but at a higher resolution that will look great on a projection screen. That way, we'll get the "bigger" picture without any extra bulk or attachments.

Like CC has already said, why would we need the Foleo if those main issues are addressed?

But, the main focus is that this is meant as NOT just a Treo companion but a cellular phone companion. That means, Palm is trying to grab the entire cellular market share away from Nokia, Motorola, Samsung, LG, etc, enabling all cell phones to have the smartphone like capability on a bigger screen.

With that in mind, I guess I can somewhat see why this is here. But obviously it's not something I will want really.

[Curious Cat]

Problem is that most PDA's don't have a monitor port, so your question is hypotetical.


Trying to answer your question, I think I would preferr a wireless connection to my PDA or smartphone like the one offered by the Foleo than having to wrestle with cables and different devices for keyboard and video (with different electric transformers as well).
Cheers,

As far as being hypothetical, my point is that it wouldn't be very hard to add this feature to smartphones and eliminate the need for a whole another set of chips and operating system when it could be an extension of the smartphone. There is no need for wires at all. The keyboard could be Bluetooth and the monitor could be connected to the keyboard so that the PDA just slips into a connector, making it one small laptop like device BUT using the PDA directly, no syncing or file transferring necessary.

The main attraction to me would be use anywhere stability. For instance, sitting on my lap on a train. If I don't have a surface to set it on like a desk, I can't use my UWK. Being able to do real writing at a moments notice , on any surface, and without the functional bloat of a laptop has some appeal to me.

As I mentioned above, the whole unit could be configured to physically be like a laptop.

What I'm really wondering is why do we need a separate operating system and all that it entails. If there demand for a product like a Foleo, why wouldn't they be better served by having the PDA be the crux of the system instead of having software that runs on one part and not the other and all the other problems having two separate systems entails just so one can have a larger keyboard and screen?

edit: Maceyr, you posted while I was replying but it sounds like you understand what I'm saying.

[JRakes]

You've actually stated some of my questions (confusion?) much better than I have, CC! As I mentioned in another post, I can't see spending so much money for an "accessory" to add a few enhancements. But that's just me. I can very well see how someone such as Hook could make good use of the Foleo concept. But I have to wonder if there isn't a somewhat simpler (and less expensive) solution - I'm thinking of something like an iPod dock, taking from the concept you mentioned in the first paragraph of the previous post.

Of course, I'm just thinking here...

Good thread, BTW! I might not see any need for this device, personally, but I do want to learn more about it.

Joe

[Hook]

As I mentioned above, the whole unit could be configured to physically be like a laptop.

What I'm really wondering is why do we need a separate operating system and all that it entails. If there demand for a product like a Foleo, why wouldn't they be better served by having the PDA be the crux of the system instead of having software that runs on one part and not the other and all the other problems having two separate systems entails just so one can have a larger keyboard and screen?

You raise a lot of good questions and points in your various posts, CC.

I don't entirely have an answer for this qustion, but I suspect it must be hard because no one has done it. It may in fact be that the two parts of the solution (the PDA and the keyboard monitor) need different OSes because they are functionally different (though I would think they will become less different once there is a Linux-based PDA).

I feel like I've been thrust into the position of defending or apologizing or rationalizing for Palm (not here but in other threads), which is not what I'm doing at all. I have no idea if this solution will turn out to be anything, it could really flop, but as it is what is coming, I'd like to wait and see what it is, really, before either praising or panning. I do see a potential for my particular needs. Further, it is a problem for which I have been searching for several years now and not finding it. I think it is overpriced, but a few years ago I thought $400 DVD players were overpriced. They were, but I love my $90 dollar DVD player. However, if this were to turn out to be a good solution, I would have to weigh my desire for the solution versus the fiscal penalty of being an early adopter of a such a solution.

The thing is, being separate, the PDA and the Foleo, may really be elegant. Particularly if Hawkins' notion of this not having to be just for the Treo bears fruit. The Foleo is a potential for any small computing/communications device potentially. I just don't see how you can get that "use anywhere" stability (and I don't even know for sure that the Foleo has it) with hooking things to a PDA. I'd love to see it though.

Again, this is just me. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything.

[phumphries]

I think that Palm is on the right track in thinking that users would like their PDA / SmartPhone to be their computer and that users sometimes want a bigger keyboard, but I think that a large screen that is just an accessory to the smaller device will be the successful product.

I would definitely add a 7" to 10" touch screen with perhaps a slide-out keyboard to my current Palm PDA or BlackBerry phone if it cost $99 and gave me the PDA experience on a bigger screen (ie everything that my Bluetooth enabled device can do only bigger).

Foleo, or this first demo version of Foleo, seems to be a bit too much for the problem that it is intended to solve. (Unless, as maceyr notes, Palm is really trying to grab a big chunk of the cellular phone market, which would justify the added power in the "screen and keyboard companion" that seems to me to be unnecessary with a 400MHz processor sitting in the SmartPhone to which it is supposedly linked.)

[mango555]

"... some device that sports a keyboard, battery and larger screen but runs directly from your smartphone instead of being a separate entity?"

Isn't that basically what the Foleo is? Of course it has its own OS (which will, I hope, allow it to do some cool things... a synch'd version of ListPro comes to mind)... but basically, I'm seeing this as what you describe. What I don't want is to have multiple devices all plugged in to or paired with my smartphone, running a variety of patches to make it work, etc. What I do want it to open the Foleo and have the Treo (or Blackberry) in my pocket wake up, pair and go. I want the Foleo experience to be completely seamless from my Treo (form factor aside) such that everything that I want/need on my phone is available on my Foleo. I don't want to do anything to sync... I just want it to be sync'd. If that is Mr. Hawkin's vision of the Foleo, I'm in as it will make my life easier.

[Curious Cat]

"... some device that sports a keyboard, battery and larger screen but runs directly from your smartphone instead of being a separate entity?"

Isn't that basically what the Foleo is? Of course it has its own OS (which will, I hope, allow it to do some cool things... a synch'd version of ListPro comes to mind)... but basically, I'm seeing this as what you describe. What I don't want is to have multiple devices all plugged in to or paired with my smartphone, running a variety of patches to make it work, etc. What I do want it to open the Foleo and have the Treo (or Blackberry) in my pocket wake up, pair and go. I want the Foleo experience to be completely seamless from my Treo (form factor aside) such that everything that I want/need on my phone is available on my Foleo. I don't want to do anything to sync... I just want it to be sync'd. If that is Mr. Hawkin's vision of the Foleo, I'm in as it will make my life easier.

Mango555,
You make it sound so simple and easy to use and I appreciate your answer. Let's compare the system I described with the Foleo. You said, "such that everything that I want/need on my phone is available on my Foleo". First off, at least at launch, the Foleo can only get email by synchronizing with a smartphone. It can not get it directly, this per Ed Hardy, our Editor-in-Chief who is in contact with representatives from Palm. The Folio also does not sync your Calender. Right off the bat, there is plenty missing on the Foleo that if you were using just an external keyboard/monitor device it would be easily accessible. You want to look at some of your pictures that are stored on the SD card on your PDA, are they on the Foleo? How about your Favorites for your web browser, Notes you took in the last meeting, a voice memo you left yourself, the games you play and where's that file you downloaded off the Internet, were you on the Folio or did you use your PDA? Your browsing this forum and someone links to a video you want to watch, it won't run. My point is why reinvent the wheel when all anyone really wants, that is considering a Foleo, is to be able to periodically use a bigger screen and a keyboard?