Asus Tablet 600

[Mi An]

I see Windows RT more of just Windows 8 with limited functionality dictated by low-spec hardware as opposed to a third OS separate from Windows 8 and Windows Phone 8. Kind of like what Windows 7 Starter on netbooks was (no Aero, no customizeable wallpaper, but still Windows 7 at its core), or Windows Phone 7 Tango on developing-world-spec WP7 phones (limited multitasking, certain apps disabled, but still WP7 at its core).

Windows 7 starter ran the same programs that Windows 7 pro ran -- that's mostly why I see RT and non-RT as separate platforms. How many consumers could buy one of these not realizing that it won't run their programs, because of the expectations created by the name? Also, ARM isn't exactly low spec anymore. Wintel hasn't kept up the pace of improvement they once had, while ARM has been kicking butts and taking names. I understand you probably weren't saying ARM was low-spec'd, merely that it had incompatibilities with wintel that aren't easily overcome so the situations were similar, but I did want to point that out. Despite what a lot of writers wrote about the most common w7 starter machine, the netbook, you could run a ton of stuff on netbooks, indeed, the low spec'd guts was not the biggest compatibility issue -- the resolution was, and that was an awfully arbitrary and unnecessary constraint. They really were capable of more than just web browsing, though at least their name set expectations low enough to easily clear.

Like you, I do see different options for everyone. Indeed, I counseled someone last year to wait for windows on ARM who had years prior bought a $2,000 laptop and proceeded to use it for 1) IE 2) Office and 3) Solitaire. :facepalm: IE (Activex, perhaps?) was a work necessity. There are plenty of people who don't use much more than that on their PC, but many of them are actually happier on iOS or Android and are less likely to need IE and activex and whatever else for work on a personal machine. I'm not saying it's bad, I just wonder how many folks will find it compelling enough to shell out for, and whether the complex branding confusion, far more detrimental in fragmentation terms than the often maligned Android fragmentation, will create a backlash. I also doubt the wisdom of MS pursuing Apple's market. A lot of those people who use/love the Xbox because it's the coolest gaming system also use the iPhone because it's the coolest phone. I get the strategy, and I concede that it could work, but almost 2 years after they began in earnest with WP7, after spending billions on it, I still see no signs of progress in expanding their very successful consumery appeal in xboxes to their other divisions.

Nokia was supposed to save WP, and while they seem to have done well, it's still a huge downgrade from the persistent marketshare analysis after the announcement of the partnership that MS would gobble up Nokia's entire existing user base overnight. Now we're told, plausibly, that Windows 8 will get people accustomed to metro, and once they are accustomed to it, they'll flock to WP. It could happen. On the other hand, Windows 8 could be as influential as Vista, just as plausibly. Keep in mind that a huge percentage of the market only just upgraded to Windows 7, many straight from XP. Some are perfectly happy with what they have, some are still smarting from the upgrade costs, and the XP holdouts are accustomed to sitting out an iteration. Many of them are still frustrated with ribbons and, should they upgrade, will have to learn yet another way of getting things done. Now if anyone can provide a compelling reason to take on that burden, it'd be Asus, but it's still a high bar to clear.

[Mitlov]

whether the complex branding confusion, far more detrimental in fragmentation terms than the often maligned Android fragmentation, will create a backlash.

Everything that runs on a Windows RT tablet will run on a Windows 8 tablet or PC, just not vice versa. In that way, it's similar to the iPhone and iPad. Everything that runs on the iPhone will run on the iPad, but not vice versa.

I also doubt the wisdom of MS pursuing Apple's market.

Everyone says they're pursuing Apple's market, but that doesn't mean that they're not really looking at their own demographics. Remember the "iDon't; Droid Does" ads? Doesn't mean that Motorola and Android limited their target market to Apple's demographic. I think the same is true here. I see Windows phones and tablets being marketed primarily toward (1) white-collar businesspeople and (2) middle-American families, a somewhat different demographic than the academia population and the $6-lattes-daily population that is so fiercely loyal to Apple.

A lot of those people who use/love the Xbox because it's the coolest gaming system also use the iPhone because it's the coolest phone. I get the strategy, and I concede that it could work, but almost 2 years after they began in earnest with WP7, after spending billions on it, I still see no signs of progress in expanding their very successful consumery appeal in xboxes to their other divisions.

The integration with Xbox isn't two years old though; it's brand new, both in terms of features (SmartGlass--using the mobile device to control the Xbox) and in terms of branding Microsoft's little-known-but-actually-quite-awesome music service with the Xbox name. The one and only thing WP7 has in common with Xbox is having a tile named "Xbox" which contains all your smartphone gaming. Otherwise, there's really no interaction between a WP7 phone and an Xbox 360.

Frankly, for better or for worse, I think WP7 has been little more than a trial run for WP8. Microsoft never really promoted it hard, and certain key selling points for the appeal of WP8 weren't there at the beginning of WP7 (social media integration with Mango; SmartGlass with the release of WP8). Because Microsoft never really tried to take over the market with WP7, instead treating it as an extended beta test, I don't think it's safe to say that WP8 won't succeed in taking a big chunk of market share just because WP7 never took a big chunk of market share.

[Mi An]

Microsoft never really promoted it hard

They're paying many many thousands of times as much attention to WP as they did to winmo, and certainly aren't slacking in comparison to Google and Apple's efforts at the same stage of Android and iOS. Nokia's ubiquitous "the smartphone beta test is over" ad is an ironic counter to your characterization of WP7 as a beta, all the more given how much MS itself spent on Nokia and that Nokia is run by an MS exec. With all due respect, I just don't find it credible to say MS wasn't trying incredibly hard, or that their tiny marketshare doesn't fail to meet their own aspirations. They tried hard, they invested heavily, spending a billion on Nokia alone (that we know of) and flooding the airways with ads I'd say are pretty good, leveraging their retail locations for a huge Smoked by WP promotion, and it hasn't paid off yet. That's pretty much the least controversial thing I can think to say on the topic. How many billion do they have to spend before they're trying hard enough to be serious about the product?

don't think it's safe to say that WP8 won't succeed in taking a big chunk of market share just because WP7 never took a big chunk of market share.

I wouldn't and didn't say that either. However, addressing analysts I mentioned above that were insanely optimistic (and seem to be perpetually optimistic) about WP I would say there's no evidence (again... yet) that they know how to attract consumery types in the *mobile* market. Addressing the newest strategy that familiarity with w8 will lead to huge gains in wp8, I'm only saying "maybe, but it's not a slam dunk" and I've listed credible reasons why it might not work. The new features and general maturing (a la Android's shift from modest 1.x to juggernaut 2.x) could help too (though social media has been deeply integrated from launch), but again, it's hardly certain. I never said MS mobile was doomed to failure, just that they aren't destined for success, and skepticism is warranted.

[Drillbit]

I still can't figure out for the life of me why I would want ugly tiles like that all over my screen. Tell me you can make them go away. Guess I'd better buy a new computer with Win 7 before it's too late.

That is what exactly I'm doing. Getting the last Win7 computers before they switch.

Seeing a few tiles is one thing, but seeing too many of them creates a lot more screen clutter and fatigue. Note --- the empty spaces between icons used in traditional interfaces are supposed to "rest" your eyes and lessen viewing fatigue.

[Drillbit]

And another nice thing about the SmartGlass integration between Win 8 tablets and the Xbox 360...Microsoft just upstaged Nintendo's Wii-U before the Wii-U even hit the market, by taking a similar concept but letting you just use the tablet you use for everything else, instead of requiring you to purchase a dedicated tablet-controller for your game console.



Madden for the 360 is an obvious fit for the tablet-as-controller, but I'm sure there will be others.

Xbox 360 “SmartGlass” turns phone or tablet into second controller | Ars Technica

I would rather get a Wii U simply because it runs Wii games. It is also a lot more powerful, with a triple core PowerPC and AMD Radeon 7000 graphics. That's more powerful than an XBox 360.

One Wii game I look forward to playing in mobile form would be this.



Also, right now, I would think that any tablet that costs more than $500 is dead on the market, and over $400 will only have a marginal chance of survival. The gold spot for a future tablet would be about $200 preferably, not exceeding $300.

[Hook]

And another analysis from Forbes on Windows 8 getting Metro:

What on Earth is Microsoft Doing With Windows 8 and Metro? - Forbes

It kind of reflects my attitude in terms of Metro on Desktop/laptop.

[Mitlov]

I would rather get a Wii U simply because it runs Wii games. It is also a lot more powerful, with a triple core PowerPC and AMD Radeon 7000 graphics. That's more powerful than an XBox 360.

Yes, because they're different generation consoles. The Xbox 360 ran circles around the Wii, and the upcoming Xbox 720 will likely run circles around the Wii-U. And that's just in terms of graphics performance, not to mention game selection, where Xbox has crushed Nintendo in recent years (I'm saying this as a Wii owner who basically just uses it for Netflix for my kids nowadays).

Also, right now, I would think that any tablet that costs more than $500 is dead on the market, and over $400 will only have a marginal chance of survival. The gold spot for a future tablet would be about $200 preferably, not exceeding $300.

As the owner of a $200 tablet, let me say you get what you pay for. I think $400-$500 is the sweet spot between quality and affordability for tablets. And that's where I expect the Asus Tablet 600 to land.

And another analysis from Forbes on Windows 8 getting Metro:

What on Earth is Microsoft Doing With Windows 8 and Metro? - Forbes

It kind of reflects my attitude in terms of Metro on Desktop/laptop.

On the other hand, AnandTech's take on it is much more like my experience after playing around with Win 8 CP and Win 8 RP:

For most, the number one fear with Windows 8 and with Metro is that Microsoft is sacrificing current desktop and laptop users of Windows in an effort to chase the tablet market. Some may disagree with me, but I don’t think this is true. The Start menu is gone, but consider this: the best thing that Microsoft did to the Start menu came in Vista, when the new integrated search made it so that you didn’t actually have to go digging through folders and sub-folders. Not only is that search functionality alive and well in Windows 8, but the problem of folders and subfolders that it was created to avoid is also gone.

Yes, Metro is very different from what came before, and yes, Metro was clearly designed with touch in mind, but once you learn its tricks (and especially once you’ve got the new keyboard shortcuts dedicated to memory) it acquits itself as a flexible and powerful user interface. Even if you’re on a massive 2560x1440 display with multiple monitors and never, ever touch the Windows Store or a Metro app, the Start screen serves as a much more configurable and useful application launcher than the tiny Start menu ever was.

I don’t want to say that the Start screen is definitively better for PC users, especially those who rely on Windows 8's sometimes flaky mouse motions, but I strongly disagree with anyone who says that it’s worse. Microsoft has greatly improved Windows’ functionality on tablets (and if you’ve never used Windows 7 or something older on a currently available tablet PC, let me tell you: it isn’t pretty) while not greatly impacting the operating system’s usability on desktops and laptops. Metro's biggest problem right now is going to be what users bring with them: years of accumulated experience about how Windows should look and work. Windows is still Windows, but all of these changes add up to a new interface that is just different enough to spook users who rely on remembered actions to get around their computers, rather than an actual understanding of how and why things work.

AnandTech - In-Depth with the Windows 8 Consumer Preview

[Varjak]

I think however that you NEED the Wii-U controller with screen to play, because it's also the 'brain' of the console. You can then link two or more together to play head-to-head, etc. Of course, if you want an X-box instead, the tablet does make for a great solution.

[Drillbit]

Yes, because they're different generation consoles. The Xbox 360 ran circles around the Wii, and the upcoming Xbox 720 will likely run circles around the Wii-U. And that's just in terms of graphics performance, not to mention game selection, where Xbox has crushed Nintendo in recent years (I'm saying this as a Wii owner who basically just uses it for Netflix for my kids nowadays).

Next generation XBox is not a mobile device.

The XBox library doesn't matter for me, because I need my daily diet of Japanese RPGs. Even a few titles of that is enough to justify me buying a device. For example, the upcoming Phantasy Star Online 2 is enough for me to get a PS Vita.

By the way, globally the 3DS is outselling the XBox globally and even the PS3 is despite what the propaganda lets you think.

The actual figures:

Video Game Charts, Game Sales, Top Sellers, Game Data - VGChartz

This is the reason why I think the future of game consoles (XBox has been declining in sales the last few months as well as the rest of the industry) are in the larger mobile devices. This is not to mention the sales of console video games itself, as well as outlets like Gamestop which has just recently started selling Android tablets like the one I am going to mention down.

As the owner of a $200 tablet, let me say you get what you pay for. I think $400-$500 is the sweet spot between quality and affordability for tablets. And that's where I expect the Asus Tablet 600 to land.

The Acer Iconia A100 is now selling for $199 ($300 when I first bought it). Updated to Ice Cream Sandwich, it is very fast, very smooth and very sweet, not to mention bulletproof. I mean like the device is totally uncrashable and everything is glitchless. The device feels like a solid chunk, much better than the first Galaxy Tab which I paid a whole lot more. This device, even when compared to other Ice Cream Sandwich devices at a much higher price point, would compare very well in terms of build, performance, "feel", reliability, and not the least, screen quality.

Makes me look forward to the A110 when it comes out with a Tegra3 for $199.

[Mitlov]

Next generation XBox is not a mobile device.

Neither is the Wii-U. As I understand it, the CPU and GPU are in the console, not the handheld controller. You can play games on the controller without a TV, but only if you're in range of the base unit. It's not like a Vita.

The XBox library doesn't matter for me, because I need my daily diet of Japanese RPGs. Even a few titles of that is enough to justify me buying a device. For example, the upcoming Phantasy Star Online 2 is enough for me to get a PS Vita.

And that's totally cool. I'd rather play Gears of War than a JRPG, but that's as subjective as favorite foods. Microsoft is the worst game company if your gaming is JRPG-oriented, no doubt about that.

By the way, globally the 3DS is outselling the XBox globally and even the PS3 is despite what the propaganda lets you think.

It's not "propaganda"--I was just talking in terms of the US market because that's where I've always lived. The Xbox dominates here. Obviously different parts of the world are different, and I should have clarified that I was talking about the US market.

The Acer Iconia A100 is now selling for $199 ($300 when I first bought it). Updated to Ice Cream Sandwich, it is very fast, very smooth and very sweet, not to mention bulletproof. I mean like the device is totally uncrashable and everything is glitchless. The device feels like a solid chunk, much better than the first Galaxy Tab which I paid a whole lot more. This device, even when compared to other Ice Cream Sandwich devices at a much higher price point, would compare very well in terms of build, performance, "feel", reliability, and not the least, screen quality.

Makes me look forward to the A110 when it comes out with a Tegra3 for $199.

Cool, I haven't had a chance to look at one of those in person. My $199 Kindle Fire, on the other hand, makes me want to blow it up sometimes