Windows Phone 7: It's a Whole New Ballgame Discussion

[Mi An]

If they dump compatibility for all the "older" applications I've paid for and use on a daily basis, there's nothing left to keep me with Windows Mobile/phone/7/whatever. At that point, why not jump ship to Android or one of the others?

I haven't totally worked out yet, or bought this little item, but I've seen posted repeatedly the claim that only the interface will be incompatible with old applications. If true, this means a developer could slap lipstick on their pig of an application, compile it, and it would be ready roll.

This says nothing about abandonware (which despite the misunderstandings of some, can be a very valuable part of the mobile experience) that isn't open sourced -- which would be left sitting there, so close to compatible and yet so far away. It is possible that a 3rd party could create an enviornment that could allow such things to run. Who knows, maybe the WinPho developers that aren't Zune imports will give us a WinPho7 powertoy setup themselves.

With that said, I'm right there with you. Android's immaturity and application shallowness was one of the few reasons I didn't jump on it in the first place (that, and it didn't come on the TP2) a few months ago. By the time I'm ready to buy again (a very, very long time), not only will Android have matured, WinMo may well be starting fresh, maybe even too fresh. We'll see.

[Gerard]

Meaningful competition for the iPhone to be sure. Meaningful OS for power users? Not so much. Unless one is a... power Facebook user, then sure, it's meaningful in that sense. Rock on, Microsoft! Raise the roof and all that shizl. What's that? Someone wants to do some work? Shut UP! If it doesn't flow through the hubs, dude, it just ain't relevant. If I can't see your nephews and nieces doing their latest oh-so-clever thing right there on your contact tile, you're gone, consigned to the bottom of my eternally-updating Contacts priority tile set. Don't upload a video for a month? Forget you, you're gone, I've got hipper, more happening people to MMS.

It's just one big good grief... but only for people who actually LIKE having a PC in their pocket.

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Now, if they do add an emu/compatibility mode of some kind for older apps, that's a whole different story, especially if such an option would play nicely, at full speed or close to it. See, there are places I want stylus use, like in Pocket Artist which I still use all the time, and with NFPencil and KidColor for my kid, as fingerpainting in these apps is less than satisfying. Heck, I'd love to see a port of Sketchbook Pro ported to the phone, and stylus use would be essential there. Or how can I enter a quick note in apMemo with a fingertip? It just won't work, and I use apMemo a LOT every day instead of bits of paper, which tend to get lost around my workshop. I rather doubt anyone's going to come up with a way to make a fingertip behave like a stylus tip (100x size difference or so) any time soon, unless it's via a pico-projector coupled to a precisely matched camera, using a wall or desktop as a virtual touchscreen. With that sort of scaled input I can see a fingertip being quite enjoyable to use for various graphics and other editing tasks. But no rumours yet of that sort of futuristic input option are indicated with Windows Phone 7 so far as I can see.

Oh sure, more apps than ever are finger-friendly. Resco's Photo Manager 7 (up to 7.03 now) is really amazingly easy to use with a fingertip, even burrowing into the options menus, where it's all big easy buttons with no sacrifice for the user defining their experience of the app. Same with a few of Resco's other apps. And of course Spb's titles are legendary for their long-standing finger input ease. Their Today screen replacement practically makes a Windows Mobile device into a Windows Phone device, at least in the visual googaw and ease of navigation department. But there are things which are better done, or which can only be done, using a stylus. I hope Microsoft doesn't forget this, as Apple seems to have done with their iPhone and now their iPad. The iPad has less touchscreen crosspoint (sorry, don't know the technical name for that) density than any Windows Mobile phone, with a 10" screen carrying somewhere around 1,200 to 1,300 points, and an average WM phone's 2.8" screen having over 450. That sort of spread indicates the iPad being useless entirely for graphics professionals or amateur artists alike, if a stylus even appears for the iPad. Huge chunk of their market, dropped, in the name of finger-centric use. Imagine all the trees which could have been saved by encouraging people to draw and write notes with a stylus on that thing, just as another small aside.

But I'm wandering. My point is, as a Windows Mobile user I am used to having options for input. I like being able to write on my screen, and retouching photos on it is very useful in everyday life, especially those photos taken using my device's camera. Saves waiting to post-process images until they're in a big pile, often daunting in scale, and gives me something to do with idle minutes here and there which might otherwise be wasted in merely waiting. I like the idea of a device which allows the user to go anywhere, see anything, using just a finger swipe. But I want the option of using my old apps, and using a stylus. If that means sticking with a 'legacy' Toshiba TG02 when that comes available, so be it. So far at least, it seems unlike that as a WP7S user I'd even have the option of turfing out the Facebook tiles and other unwanted junk.

[NamelessPlayer]

Gerard pretty much sums up my thoughts. I want a stylus, I want my existing Windows Mobile apps (at least until I can find some worthy alternatives, which is rather difficult since I can't create them myself), and I'm not going to switch to something that doesn't do what I've come to expect in the name of trendiness. I have better uses for my money.

I'm sure that Microsoft won't phase out the existing Windows Mobile immediately, because that would mean losing quite a lot of their marketshare in the business/corporate/enterprise area. But when they quit making WM-based devices, I'm either staying put or possibly jumping ship to Maemo/MeeGo/whatever.

[Varjak]

For me, it's way to early to pass judgement. Frankly, I had a feeling this 'break' with the previous OS was coming, which is why I didn't want to jump on a Windows 6.x phone.

All I ask is that there is a large degree of user configurability and an 'opt in' philosophy. I don't care if they include Xbox or social networking 'conduits.' Just let me rearrange my 'launch' screen as I wish, with the functions I CHOOSE up front, and don't make me sign up for or automatically sign me up for services I don't want. If you do, you're off my list of options.

[timepilot84]

I want a stylus, I want my existing Windows Mobile apps (at least until I can find some worthy alternatives, which is rather difficult since I can't create them myself), and I'm not going to switch to something that doesn't do what I've come to expect in the name of trendiness.

Unfortunately for you, it appears you are in the minority. I wouldn't expect Microsoft to continue development of Window Mobile for the benefit of the 18% (and falling) of smartphone users that are still using it. I daresay, a sizeable percentage of those currently using Windows Mobile will gladly defect to a modern platform when it comes available with a lot (not necessarily all) of the features they want/need. Those people are already leaving the platform in droves, what does MS have to lose by coming up with a modern competitor that might win some of them back?

I find it interesting that the loyalty of users of Windows Mobile seems to be actually more of a loyalty to the products that made up for the platform's inherent deficiencies (SPB Mobile Shell, HTC Touchwiz, etc).

[Drillbit]

With that said, I'm right there with you. Android's immaturity and application shallowness was one of the few reasons I didn't jump on it in the first place (that, and it didn't come on the TP2) a few months ago. By the time I'm ready to buy again (a very, very long time), not only will Android have matured, WinMo may well be starting fresh, maybe even too fresh. We'll see.

By that time there might be an Android ROM for the TP2 courtesy of XDA. These guys are hatching one Android ROM after another for every HTC Windows Mobile device.

[NamelessPlayer]

Unfortunately for you, it appears you are in the minority. I wouldn't expect Microsoft to continue development of Window Mobile for the benefit of the 18% (and falling) of smartphone users that are still using it. I daresay, a sizeable percentage of those currently using Windows Mobile will gladly defect to a modern platform when it comes available with a lot (not necessarily all) of the features they want/need. Those people are already leaving the platform in droves, what does MS have to lose by coming up with a modern competitor that might win some of them back?

I find it interesting that the loyalty of users of Windows Mobile seems to be actually more of a loyalty to the products that made up for the platform's inherent deficiencies (SPB Mobile Shell, HTC Touchwiz, etc).

Don't I know it...it's even WORSE for me because I want both sides of the coin! A machine that can be used for leisure as well as work without compromises on either side, just like a fully-fledged PC!

Admitted, my loyalty to Windows Mobile is indeed tied to existing software, some of which (PocketBreeze, iLauncher, and just about every other Today screen plugin ever made) is made to correct glaring shortcomings in the OS...but in correcting those shortcomings, it ends up becoming better than everything else in the process.

[Drillbit]

All that surely gets broken with Windows Mobile 7.

At some point you either have to continue on and on like Windows XP users, or make a clean break.

Having said that, I myself got apps on Windows Mobile, iPhone, Blackberry, Symbian and still desired and added Android, which I have added a whole bunch of apps also. I chose not to let apps chain me in terms of my knowledge and personal evolution.

I am paying a gold Xbox Live account. Does it interest me to see it on Windows Phone 7. Not at all.

I got 3.7gb worth of apps in my iPod Touch. Well over a thousand bucks of paid music from iTunes. All that was not enough to entice me an iPhone.

I go from one platform and another, testing them out in features, reliability and speed. Finally found that worked, is fast and flexible. Lets me social network effectively, lets me do Cloud, lets me customize, hack and modify like there is no tomorrow, has tons of apps, offers all sorts of different choices, has superb messaging, has great push notification, has fast browsing and doing this while its all open. Literally the best of all worlds from Windows Mobile, Symbian, Blackberry and iPhone, and beyond that.

I found that in Android.

Its starting to say a lot when devs from the Windows Mobile camps (Opera, Skyfire, SPB) are joining with devs from the iPhone, Symbian and Blackberry camps, pouring stuff into Android, turning it into a convergence platform. Which made my transition easier, because I am getting Android versions of apps that I used in my other platforms before, and now all in one place.

[Gerard]

That's an interesting statement. Could you post a link to some semi-definitive site where an old Windows Mobile user could get a taste for a wide range of apps? Sort of like PocketPCFreewares.com for the PPC for example, though obviously that doesn't cover shareware, but a place where one can get a sense of what's possible with a given device.

If Android's app library is really getting to be that good, with signs of massive improvement due to migrating developers, it sounds like it is indeed the next stop on this ride, where Windows Phone 7 almost certainly isn't. Barring some major shifts in attitude from Microsoft before release in the fall that is. I mean, they could still pull a rabbit out of a hat, provide some sort of compromise for users who want to be able to delete all that social networking filler and nonsense and get down to actually using the thing for some work.

I get this weird feeling sometimes about the iPhone, and now with WP7S. It's sort of the opposite of claustrophobia, but not in a purposeful, meaningfully good way. It's like a sort of zombie agoraphobia. The world is migrating in hordes towards this social networking nirvana, where everybody knows where everybody else is at a given moment, what pictures they think are must-see, what film they plan to watch this evening after eating what meal... It's belly-button gazing turned outward. So much activity, with so little meaning. Our lives as shared soap operas. We've become the entertainment, but we have no story to tell, only links to other links to stories whose origins no one knows, and no one cares because the stories are so trivial no one could really care very much. Very weird to base a computer OS around stuff like that. Oh right, it's a phone, not a PC... that's why it can play Xbox, right? I'm getting nauseous.

[Drillbit]

Definitely SPB is putting out Android apps now. They were also among top 30 finalists in a recent Google sponsored app development contest. SPB Mobile Shell 5 has been announced for Android, and Symbian as well.

Skyfire has also announced planning to make a browser for Android. This may make use of a recent WebKit related acquisition.

Opera has already demoed an Android version of Mobile 10.

Adobe planning to put Flash 10 on Android. Having demoed this on a Droid or Nexus One.

Then you start having the Blackberry crossovers to Android. Good example: Slacker Radio. Other radio apps, Spotify, also made available for iPhone and Symbian, Pandora and Rhapsody is in beta now.

Then you have iPhone app crossovers, like official apps from Flickster, Flicker, eBay, PayPal and Amazon.

Apps that I see in many platforms, which I find useful, Accuweather, Kayak, fring, Palringo, Evernote.

Fast growing social networking apps, many nice Twitter apps. An official Foursquare app. Gowalla, previously only on the iPhone, hopping on to Android too. LinkedIn I see a beta on the Market. WordPress, I see listed on the Market now. Of course, there is an official Facebook app, which interestingly supports push notifications and an onscreen widget. Seesmic, which does a well known desktop Twitter client, made a mobile client for Blackberry, then Android, with an iPhone app still in development.

There is a convergence of devs from different platforms heading into Android. Its easy to see why. Entrance fees are the cheapest in the industry, unlimited updates (Microsoft limits you to five), no approval process needed though Google reserves the right to take you down if you posted malware. A dev can put up an app on the Market in mere minutes instead 1-2 weeks for an iPhone approval process.

Surprisingly I find modders can list their stuff on the Market as well. Saw one by cyanogen.