The real test for PPCs is finally here!!!

[toshtosh]

Here it is, in all its glory: Sony Clie, Wi-fi, Palm OS 5, new UI, 200 MHz ARM processor. Higher res screen than our PPCs, built-in camera.

Well, we were all saying MS/PPC might be in trouble if they don't hurry up. Sony is closing the gap VERY quickly, and if they release 3-4 models like this, I don't know what will happen.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/54/27307.html

[sfsdfd]

Originally posted by toshtosh
Here it is, in all its glory: Sony Clie, Wi-fi, Palm OS 5, new UI, 200 MHz ARM processor. Higher res screen than our PPCs, built-in camera.

I owned a Palm device for three years before buying an iPaq a year ago. My close friend has owned Palm devices for four years and just bought a Clie.

We had a discussion last weekend about the platforms. My conclusion was that the PPC really isn't offering me any additional value over Palm's line. With Sony doing such a great job, the main reason I paid $300 extra for an iPaq - namely, the non-crappy hardware - has been nullified.

Hardware-wise, the platforms are equivalent in daily use; and the Clie is priced lower. Palm is currently winning this battle.

HOWEVER: Future progress will be crippled by the archaic Palm OS. Apps simply can't get that robust on a Palm platform without massive re-engineering. WinCE already incorporates concepts like a hierarchial file system, multithreading, and great multimedia support; that gap will only widen over time.

The bottom line will be the "killer app". PocketPC doesn't currently feature any functionality that Palm can't offer. We may see some killer apps with the advent of always-on wireless Internet.

- David Stein

[pixelator]

Did you check the battery life on that thing? Sony estimates 5 hours with the backlight OFF? I think my former Maestro could beat that.

Honestly, I think the CLIE NR70 is an impressive line, but this is still not a David to the PPC Multimedia Goliath until 1). PalmOS architecture starts really supporting hardcore power for multimedia, file systems, multitasking, networking, etc. and 2). We start seeing some APPS to support the 320x480 screen. Up to now, there's been precious little - certainly nothing like PocketDiVX, PocketTV, PocketArtist or Photogenics.

This basically looks like a warmed over NR70V with the same low-quality camera, added wireless (finally), 200MHz ARM and OS5. IMHO, the big deal here is the 200MHz ARM. If they actually wind up supporting it with 'real' games and multimedia products, it could be impressive if OS5 isn't a major bottleneck.

Then again, if Palm devices are only just arriving at the 200MHz mark with untried and unknown graphics horsepower, one has to wonder if it's literally too little too late.

b

[toshtosh]

Sony estimates 5 hours with the backlight OFF?

That sounds like a typo/mistake from someone. I don't see how it could only last that long?

I also noticed it's as big as PPCs, I have never seen a nv70 so I assumed it was closer to Palm/e310 size, which is why I thought this was an amazing device (well it still is pretty cool). Turns out it's around the size of an e740, but heavier.

Well anyway, 200MHz, so Sony can now make devices with fast video and mp3. That should be enough to scare Microsoft . And I'm not sure why people discount the camera. Sure it's not high-quality, but who would say no to the ability to take 640x480 pictures wherever you are (without a big CF camera sticking out)?

[pixelator]

And until Palm DOES offer the functionality that PPC's offer (until the CLIE comes out that includes, but isn't limited to, decent wireless networking, good multimedia, spectacular gaming and all apps supporting the native high resolution environment), I'm not jumping back into that ship.

So I disagree with the assertion that CLIE's are significantly cheaper. The current and upcoming CLIE models top out at $600... Or that they can do everything a PPC can (3D rendering, true multitasking, live file management from the desktop and a real file system, 30fps MPEG and AVI fullscreen playback with stereo sound, Photoshop level paint apps, etc).

And for many, even Palm diehard faithful, that clamshell design and tiny keyboard are really not in keeping with what a streamlined handheld is all about. Sony needs to work on a 6xx/7xx form version with the NR70 attributes sans keyboard & camera.

b

[pixelator]

The NR70 was never svelte, even by PPC standards:

Sony CLIE NR70 (no cam): 5.5"L x 2.9"W x 0.7"D, 7oz.

Compare to:

Toshiba e310: 4.9"L x 3.1"W x 0.4"D, 4.9oz.
Toshiba e740: 4.9"L x 3.1"W x 0.6"D, 6.1oz
iPAQ 3970: 5.3"L x 3.3"W x .63"D, 6.3oz.
Audiovox Maestro: 4.92"L x 3.05"W x .69"D, 6.35oz.

[Pio]

Iv'e owned both PPcs and Palms. Most recently the Te740 and a Clie' c616. I agree that in normal day to day use that there is really not much of a difference between devices. Now when it comes to the extras like multimedia and connectivity PPcs are way ahead of the game. Unless the palm units catch up very quickly, i still see nothing to draw more new users to the palm platform. However, on top of the already considerable lead that PPc have in the formentioned areas consider also that the upcoming Arm processer are getting faster and faster. very soon the phrase "pocket pc" will be true(standard usb ports, vga, ect.). i still see palms as nothing more than a real fancy orginizer.

[r0b456]

I think many people are overlooking the fact that Microsoft intentionally Goated Palm to play "Catch-Up". It was an amazing Trick to pull, since Microsoft was never Leading anything. Microsoft succeeded in having Palm chase after them, even though Palm was already the leader. With it's massive install base and loyal customer support, Microsoft could not beat Palm on it's current level (The Entry Level). So Microsoft instead set about to dominate the Power User level, and waited (more like Prodded) for Palm to meet them on that level. The moment Palm steps onto that playing field with all new hardware, all new OS, and only a Sprinkle of brand new apps to show off the new Power, Microsoft expects Pocket PC's to simply wallop the new devices with several generations of Experience. While Palm is working on making sure it's existing apps of 100 different Calculators and Notepads are still compatible with the very different architecture and trying to showcase a few "Power" apps, the Pocket PC will have refined versions of their Media Player, Pocket TV, mulitple ports of games like Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein, etc. Impressive emulators like PocketGB and PocketNES. With 200mhz ARM processors, the Palms do have a chance of catching up to these Pocket PC apps. But Rome was not built in a day. The delay for Content on these "Super Palms" could leave many converts out in the cold. While most of us are intelligent and realistic, your Casual User is going to know just enough about PDA's to be dangerous, see the new Palms, and expect them to part the Red Sea. Whether the devices are Good simply will not be enough -- they will have to be a Pocket PC "Killers" in order to be viewed a success.

IMHO, if Palm truly wanted to compete with Microsoft and they wanted to enter the Power User market, they chose to do so too late.

[pixelator]

You did mean 'goaded', yes? I get this mental image of Bill Gates with a goat, and well, nevermind.

But from what I gleaned from your post, I agree for the most part. I think.

b

[toshtosh]

Sorry rob, that doesn't make much sense.

You are saying:

1) Palm dominated low-end, Microsoft dominated high-end.

2) MS 'tricks' Palm to make high-end devices.

3) MS still dominates high-end because it's been there longer (even though now there are high-end palm devices).

So what's the gain? They were dominating already!

Unless what you're trying to say is that MS knew from the start that consumers would eventually want high-end devices? Because of that they didn't even bother trying to compete with the low-end palms, since they knew the market would move towards their end.