Well I've seen plenty of Palm Ads but not one PocketPC ad from Microsoft!

[Jonathan]

OK so where is this wonderful marketing blitz that MS was promising us. Haven't seen one yet. I went to thanksgiving dinner at my relatives and showed off my iPaq. After dinner one of my aunts took me aside and told me she bought a Handspring for my cousin for xmas. She asked me if it would do everything her kid would want it to do. And asked what device I had. (SHE'S NEVER EVEN HEARD OF THE POCKETPC!!!!! GRRR!) Now yes I'm biased towards the PocketPC but I gave her the streight facts about both the Palm and the PocketPC. Went online and downloaded some links to Casio, Compaq, HP, and pocketpc.com.

Maybe its just me but why should I be the one pushing this dang product?!?! I walk around in my PocketPC t-shirt. I use my iPaq in public and answer any questions from curious people. I'm starting to wonder if MS should be paying me for doing their advertising? ;-)


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-SiliconAddiction
"Ambiguity succeeds where honesty dares not venture" -Dogbert

Keep in mind one thing. Palm has been around for 5+ years with an OS that has been tweaked to the extreme. Give MS the credit that it deserves. They have come a very long way in a short time.

[Charles Pickrell]

Look at the recent Pocket PC parties, the new website re-launch, Microsoft attending user group meetings, and sponsorship of websites. While it is certainly a different mode of advertising, it certainly is there. The problem is that most stores are still selling out of Pocket PC without Microsoft's help right now. All that a concerted ad campaign would do is create a lot of unfulfilled demand (a la Play Station 2)

CP

[This message has been edited by Charles Pickrell (edited November 27, 2000).]

[Jonathan]

Online ads are all well and good along with these pocket parties but the simple fact is that the gemeral public doesn't see these ads and I don't think the average consumer is going to be going to a Pocket party any time soon. (I wouldn't mind though. Anything happening in Minnesota any time soon?)

I took a quick pole at work of 200 people and 32 of them have heard of the PocketPC. Most of these people hear about if from other people who already own a PocketPC. 12 of these people read about it online. Of those 200 people 168 have heard of Palm. (No recounts necessary)

I understand that these puppies are selling out faster then they can make them but at this point its a matter of getting into the people's consciousness. When you ask someone what's the first PDA they can think of the answer always comes back Palm. That need to change if Microsoft and company wants to be a player in this market. So far MS is on the border of Palm's radar. Not really a threat.....mean while I opened up today's ads. Best Buy, Circuit City, CompUSA, Office Depot. Inevitably in every case there was the Palm Pilot v, Palm Pilot 3c, Handspring. Not a peep of the pocketPC except for CompUSA where they advertised the fold out keyboard for the Jornada. Now I fully understand that MS can't control what these stores put in their ads and I understand that if they had any large stock of these things they would be putting out ads for them. So who's shoulders does this portion of the blame fall on. Casio and HP. (I'm not even bothering to mention Compaq because as far as I'm concerned they've blown off the general public. You still can find an iPaq anywhere but online.) Is it really that hard to make a stockpile of these machines? They've had months to prepare for xmas season. To start churning out their products. That's the problem MS is facing. Unlike Palm they aren't producing their own hardware. They can't dictate just what comes off the production line. They can't advertize for the iPaq because it's not their product. I think this is both a weakness and strength for them. MS needs to figure out the limit of help they need to provide to HP and Casio. (Which I'm sure they are probably well aware of this issue.)

Still its frustrating when a friend of mine shoves the fact (Friendly Palm-PocketPC rivalry) in my face that there isn't a peep from the PocketPC front.

------------------
-SiliconAddiction
"Ambiguity succeeds where honesty dares not venture" -Dogbert

Keep in mind one thing. Palm has been around for 5+ years with an OS that has been tweaked to the extreme. Give MS the credit that it deserves. They have come a very long way in a short time.

[Kenny Goers]

I've talked to some Microsoft folks locally and according to them, the only reason they are not is the iPAQ. As soon as Compaq can ramp-up production they are going balls to the wall on advertising.

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_Kenny.

[tszr-014]

What twilight zone world you live in, bro?

"Give MS the credit that it deserves. They have come a very long way in a short time."

You seem to enjoy denial & lies. MS HASN'T come a "very" long way - the iPaq is the VERY LEAST Win'CE needed to be from its debut. (Ver. 1.0 & 2.0 were obviously to trick consumers out of their money for crap - the kind of deception you seem to enjoy.)

And it's not been a SHORT time - it's going on FOUR YEARS.

Wake up, punk kid.
Spoiled brats like you have tons of cash to throw at high-tech toys due to factors in your own life beyond your control & which you're too stupid to be thankful for.

YOUR ELDERS value VALUE.
VALUE = Palm OS.
PERIOD.
Everyone understands this but you.

Get a dictionary, boy.

[imported_Administrator]

I won't address the advertising issue but here's something that you may find interesting and worth discussing.

I received 3 catalogs in the mail today: Franklin Covey, eCost.com and amazon.com.

Franklin Covey has a Palm IIIc on the cover and 18 pictures of various Palm devices inside. It also has a picture of a Compaq iPAQ (which it is selling for $519) and 2 pictures of a Cassiopeia E-125 ($569).

eCost has the iPAQ on the cover for $489, the Sony Clie for $399, the E-125 for $499, the Palm VIIx for $449, and the Jornada 547 for $479. Inside there are 4 pictures of Palm devices, one picture of a Clie, one picture of an iPAQ, one of a Jornada (it actually shows a 420 and identifies it as a 548), one of an E-125 and one of a Jornada 720 ($999).

Amazon has a Palm V, a Jornada 548, a Handspring Visor Platinum and a Palm m100 inside.



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Steve Bush
Editor-in-chief
Brighthand
www.brighthand.com

[marlof]

tszr-014: this is not the board for flaming. If you like doing that, enjoy yourself in a unmoderated alt newsgroup. If you would like to stay here, please change your tone of voice. If you like your Palm better, good for you. Please explain the pro's and contra's if you like, but do not come in here trying to start a flame war.

Jonathan: I've actually seen quite some Microsoft advertisement. In some of my favorite computer mags was a full page adverstisement containing a CD Rom that demoed the Pocket PC OS. The first time I saw it, I was overwhelmed! My Jornada was still on backorder (yeah, I live in the electronic third world), and this way I got the taste of the OS. And it sure made me want a Pocket PC more and more.

And in the mobile computer mags I frequently read, there's always a full page ad by Casio (who registered the domain www.pocketpc.nl BTW, pretty clever). And there have been ads by HP, and Compaq too.

And the one shop telling me in April around launch day they would never, never sell one piece of WinCE machinery again, now has listed both the Casio, the Jornada and the iPAQ... So I think they saw the progress WinCE has made.

Still, I think there is room for improvement. Until then, MS is happy to have you, me, Charles etc. to do some C2C marketing of our own.

[Jonathan]

Hey "tszr-014"
I was one of the first adopters of the Palm Pilot Pro. Hell I've got it sitting on my desk with 7 other PDA's. (Including a Newton, Magic Link, Palm III, Casio E-11)
I can say from experience that the first Palm Pilot was as crash prone as CE 2.11.

Secondly that four years is bull because CE 2 was MS's first venture into the PDA realm. CE 1 was a handheld variant not even going head to head with palm. Microsoft was testing the waters.

I don't know where you come off with this holier then thou crap but drop it. I'm here to ask question and give some answers. I'm entitled to my opinion and it is that MS has done a great job with the PocketPC. I fully admit that CE 2 blows. I'm talking gale force blowing. Can you say tropical storm CE2.

But from practical experience I have found the PocketPCs easier to support then Palms. This is from someone supporting 23 Palm Pilots from III to VII. And supporting 6 PocketPC's (So far) I can honestly say the PocketPC has been almost maintenance free. While I have to contend with dang Palm problems on a daily basis. Losing connections to the com port, corrupted databases in the contacts, off the wall errors.

You are worse then some Apple users I know. At least most of them can keep things in perspective and keep and open mind about alternatives to their own OS - PDA - Whatever.
Don't bother replying. I'm done. And I will not change my SIG because of your immature rantings. Out.

------------------
-SiliconAddiction
"Ambiguity succeeds where honesty dares not venture" -Dogbert

Keep in mind one thing. Palm has been around for 5+ years with an OS that has been tweaked to the extreme. Give MS the credit that it deserves. They have come a very long way in a short time.

[This message has been edited by Jonathan (edited November 28, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Jonathan (edited November 29, 2000).]

[jeff]

dear tszr-014,

It's usually against my policy and better judgement to reply to obvious trolls, but in this case, I think that it bears pointing out that if your assumptions are true (quote: "MS HASN'T come a "very" long way - the iPaq is the VERY LEAST Win'CE needed to be from its debut. (Ver. 1.0 & 2.0 were obviously to trick consumers out of their money for crap - the kind of deception you seem to enjoy."), then Jonathan's assertion is indeed true (I read your take on Win CE's progress as going from "useless" to "useful"). So Jonathan should thank you for helping to prove his point -- CE has in fact come a long way.

Aside from that, I will refer you to your dictionary for the definition of "denial". Nobody here is in denial about Win CE -- except perhaps those that see to think that Palm was good enough for them in the past, and therefore it ought to be good enough for everyone else. Well, it's not good enough for me, and was obviously not what I wanted in a PDA when I began looking at them over 3 years ago. WinCE is not perfect, but I see it as having a far greater flexibility and potential for growth than Palm does. And that's why I prefer it. My E-115 is worth its price to me, and that's _my_ definition of value.

As for the name-calling, well, I had a good laugh at that. I doubt whether Jonathan was offended. Who could be? I hope that the next time that you post, you actually have something of VALUE to contribute, since you seem so wrapped up in the concept.

[Hawkeye]

tszr-014,

You're obviously not an "elder" yourself. If you did you would actually have the comprehension that value, much like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder.

I too have owned many Palms and CE devices. Any in my experience I find more value in the Pocket PC line that I do in Palm's.

For $450-$500 you can get either a Visor Prism or an iPaq. The Prism has a 160 x 160 screen, a proprietary expansion slot, a screen that is washed out in sunlight, a bad digitizer, etc. The iPaq has it's problems too, but it offers a 320 x 240 screen, perfect visibility in direct sunlight, a universal expansion system (PC card and CF cards) more memory, faster processor, better speaker and the list goes on.

Palm OS suits your needs. Good for you. You, however, are not the rest of the world. It is immature to go pushing your opinions on others and it certainly isn't something an "elder" would do.

Therefore, I ask you, who's the punk kid here? Enjoy your Palm. It's a capable device. But just remember, it's not for everyone.