From Palm to Android...

[tbessie]

I've complained a lot on here about Android's lack of native PIM-like functionality, so I won't repeat all that here.

I use DejaOffice, as Hook does, though I do a one-way sync because my source database is Palm and it doesn't sync well with Android (eg. I can only have 1 phone number of any given type transferred from a contact - 1 mobile, 1 home, etc. - if there's more than one of a given type on the Palm, it only takes one of them; I think Outlook's way of doing things gets around this by having the fields named differently - eg. "Home Phone 1, Home Phone 2" etc.).

Recently I decided I wanted a good list-making app (but not just a simple "checkbox, item, note" type thing, which most of them are). I want hierarchies of lists, folders to group lists, the ability to create lists that contain as many fields of any datatypes (checkboxes, numeric, select list, text, note, etc.) as I like. I'm coming from having used "ListPro for Palm" which does this: ListPro for Palm

Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything that was a flexible as I wanted. I ended up buying a copy of HandDB today, a full-on database app that's been around in various incarnations and platforms for a long time. It still isn't perfect, but I can foresee using it to create lists of various sorts that I need and manipulating them the way I like. It's not "list-centric", but I can at least create databases exactly as I like.

I don't sync with the cloud, or any online service, so my options are limited as far as local syncing are concerned.

- Tim

[SGosnell]

I use QuickOffice Pro for an office app. My phone came with QuickOffice, but I paid for an upgrade to the Pro version. I tried DejaOffice, and just didn't like it. YMMV.

I have used KeepassX on my PC for a long time as a password safe, and I also use KeepassDroid on Android. It uses the same database as KeepassX, and I keep mine on Dropbox, so I can access my passwords from all my computers, and in fact from anywhere I have an internet connection. The sync with KeepassDroid isn't automatic, but it can be done. I rarely make changes on my phone anyway.

The basic PIM apps work well enough for me. Everything syncs with Google if you want. I have PimlicalA installed, but I find I use the Jorte calendar much more often. PimlicalA is the Android version of Datebk6 on Palm, by the same developer, but it seems rather busy to me, and tries to do too much IMO. It's cheap, so I have no regrets about buying it. The built-in calendar app is rather lame, but there are lots of free calendar apps available. Try them and see which you like. PimlicalA does tasks, but I prefer Astrid tasks for that, and it syncs with my Google calendar. It should do what you want.

Battery life is poor on phones, much worse than any Palm I've used, but the phone is much more powerful. Everything is a compromise of some sort.

Many apps need to be connected to function fully, but that's mostly for syncing. They use little data. I have a 2GB data plan, but I rarely use 200MB, even with long trips using GPS navigation, downloading maps with satellite picture layers. It's much less of a problem than I feared originally.

[Dan Davies]

Wow! Great detail and information! This is some more of what I was looking for! I can hardly wait to get my new phone!

Thanks to all who replied for the great comments and advice.

Dan

[hal]

I use DejaOffice, as Hook does, though I do a one-way sync because my source database is Palm and it doesn't sync well with Android (eg. I can only have 1 phone number of any given type transferred from a contact - 1 mobile, 1 home, etc. - if there's more than one of a given type on the Palm, it only takes one of them; I think Outlook's way of doing things gets around this by having the fields named differently - eg. "Home Phone 1, Home Phone 2" etc.).

Therefore, tbessie, I encourage you to abandon the Palm Desktop that I understand you're still using, and embrace Outlook instead. Palm Desktop works fine on two scopes: 1. just a desktop planner, and 2. in sync with a Palm OS device. Any other scope will give you yet a number of headaches. I didn't even know that there was a way to sync Palm Desktop with Android.

Recently I decided I wanted a good list-making app (but not just a simple "checkbox, item, note" type thing, which most of them are). I want hierarchies of lists, folders to group lists, the ability to create lists that contain as many fields of any datatypes (checkboxes, numeric, select list, text, note, etc.) as I like. I'm coming from having used "ListPro for Palm" which does this: ListPro for Palm

Unfortunately, I couldn't find anything that was a flexible as I wanted. I ended up buying a copy of HandDB today, a full-on database app that's been around in various incarnations and platforms for a long time. It still isn't perfect, but I can foresee using it to create lists of various sorts that I need and manipulating them the way I like. It's not "list-centric", but I can at least create databases exactly as I like.

Just a thought here. I suggest you try SplashShopper. It's a list manager intended for organizing shopping lists (hence the name, go figure ), but you can actually repurpose it for task lists, or checklists, or whatever. It is not as granular and flexible as you mention you would like a list manager to be, but IME it works wonderful. You can generate as many lists as you feel like, and they are stored kinda itty documents. FWIW, I have used quite a number of shopping lists for Palm OS, and the killer of them all is HandyShopper (freeware BTW), but it is sadly restricted to Palm OS, WM, and there are these weird little apps in order to transfer (not quite sync) lists to a desktop spreadsheet. If I eventually decided to abandon HandyShopper it's because of the latter. SplashShopper has been offered in many recent platforms. OK, the tradeoff here is that HandyShopper is far more flexible, but SplashShopper avoids a lot of work duplicity provided that you could switch platforms, whether mobile or desktop.

Another option is that you reconsidered your app search and get yourself an outliner, pretty different app to a list manager, but it would be likely that you find it suitable for your taste.

[tbessie]

Hi hal!

Thanks for the advice - yes, one of my coming home projects is to move everything from Palm Desktop to Outlook so that I can do a two-way sync with Android. My first task was to see where my phone contacts and Palm contacts differed (since I had modified the phone contents), by writing a Java app that read exported vCards from both platforms output a list of differences.

After making the contents of Palm Desktop contain the changed phone records, I'll export the Palm data to Outlook (although first I'll want to normalize the data, mostly the phone numbers).

I'll take a look at SplashShopper - I've used other Splash products before, and generally like their stuff.

By the way, I ended up asking for a refund for HanDBase Desktop for Windows, as it crashed/failed to do simple tasks that I'd assumed a product as mature as it is would do well. It's a like funkily written (the GUI and navigation are rather strange), though I'm sure many folks like it and use it daily.

For now, I'm just using Documents To Go and a spreadsheet for my list needs, but I'll look at your suggestions.

- Tim

[scjjtt]

Dan,

Just a quick note - my first response was pretty general since many of my findings were in the thread that I referred to - but I believe I would be not be fair to share the following.

The best Task app that I found that was the closest to Palm's was "Todo + Notes Pro". I don't like the Note part of the app so I don’t use it, but the task part of it I found was very good after going through many other apps. FYI: I found that when I went to the Pro version my previous tasks in the free “Todo + Notes” were not brought into the “Pro” version - so if you plan on using it and don't want to see the ads - then beware.

“Note Everything Pro”, which has been suggested, is what I went with. The beauty of that app is I was able to transfer all my Palm notes from across 12 plus years into it and it retained all my categories. Also a very neat aspect of that app is that you can designate a particular note or memo up in the top right portion of your screen that you can access quickly by pulling down the screen from the top of your device revealing that particular note/memo in your “Notifications.” Across the years I have keep a monthly note that I record notes from conversations either by phone or in person. It just has helped when someone says, “Well, who did you speak with?” I can answer the question with a name, id and the date and time of the day. Anyway, I can keep the current month quickly accessible by doing this. When I open the app the regular way, it just opens up the previous note/memo that I was on – just like Palm.

Also, a very cool app that helped me access these 2 apps quickly is "3D Digital Weather Clock". You can set it up so that by pressing the Hour and by pressing the Minutes it will activate different apps – much like buttons on the Palm. I have it set so that when I press the Hour - it activates my "Todo + Notes Pro" app and when I press the minutes it opens up my "Notes Pro."

I tried every calendar app that was suggested to me and paying for everything that I tried if it wasn’t free. What I settled on was “CalenGoo.” The fonts and views on it, in my opinion, are the best.

I use both “Documents to Go” and “QuickOffice”. The reason I use DTG is that it can freeze panes in Excel whereas QO can not at the present time. Dropbox is great to use too.

I’ve been watching Hook’s notes on using DejaOffice. I tried it and didn’t sync correctly with it. I really don’t mind the price if it can work do what I would want it to do. I’ll probably explore it again when I drop the Palm for my Android.

I still use my Samsung Epic 4G everyday – even though I went back to my Centro. I love reading off the internet using “Dolphin” web browsing app and still respond to emails with it. I continue to try and use many many apps. I continue to read and watch the forums here at Brighthand and the day I finally part from the Centro and exclusively use the Android Phone as my only device – I’ll be ahead of the curve.

Final note: We have chargers everywhere at our home and in my office and in our cars (we can charge 3 at a time in our cars). But one of the best things I do, no matter which phone I’m carrying is to just carry an extra battery with me. I don’t understand all these things about killing apps and I’ve read that sometimes they still come back on and that takes more juice than just leaving them on. But there has never been a day that I will go through more than 2 batteries – no matter how much I’ve used the device. There are many places online where you can get backup batteries at a good price.


Good luck and keep us posted on your new adventure.

[hal]

Hi hal!

Thanks for the advice - yes, one of my coming home projects is to move everything from Palm Desktop to Outlook so that I can do a two-way sync with Android.

Anytime, pal Actually, if you speak of a migration, the first step is actually to define a single portion of your working system, and take it to a newer or more recent "safe ground", or "ground zero". Outlook has caveats of its own, but its main advantage in this subject is that it's the PIM platform that covers pretty much the rest. There are many other PIM/email managers and suites around, but you will find none with so many plug-ins available in order to connect many services and devices. Still in the first step of platforms migration, there is usually some motivation, yours here is to upgrade mobile device, but say the lengthy chore will be to clear all issues in your desktop data and place it into Outlook. BTW, there are those who choose to do it from the mobile side of their working system.

My first task was to see where my phone contacts and Palm contacts differed (since I had modified the phone contents), by writing a Java app that read exported vCards from both platforms output a list of differences.

After making the contents of Palm Desktop contain the changed phone records, I'll export the Palm data to Outlook (although first I'll want to normalize the data, mostly the phone numbers).

Yeah, this is what I'm talking about. The lengthy chore Wise, if you ask me, otherwise you're gonna pull the issues you outlived with Palm Desktop, into Outlook. It'd be like moving to another house and bringing along the clutter and the garbage OK, so you're a programmer, so you say you would even write an app in Java to do the job for you. I've never done a vCard export from PD to Outlook, but I've done exports in .csv, and the issues you mention are right around the corner.

I'll take a look at SplashShopper - I've used other Splash products before, and generally like their stuff.

If you review several list management apps, you're gonna find out that there are many with more or prettier features, but I tell you, SplashShopper has the tremendous advantage of a wide cross-platform possibility, and that, if you ask me, kills the need for more bells and whistles. And as you say, SplashData has good stuff in general. I've used lots of apps by them, and I've never been disappointed. Pretty serious business they got there.

By the way, I ended up asking for a refund for HanDBase Desktop for Windows, as it crashed/failed to do simple tasks that I'd assumed a product as mature as it is would do well. It's a like funkily written (the GUI and navigation are rather strange), though I'm sure many folks like it and use it daily.

For now, I'm just using Documents To Go and a spreadsheet for my list needs, but I'll look at your suggestions.

Yeah, YMMV. I just tried HanDBase a long time ago and IMO it looks like a very legacy app, very outdated, let alone to figure out what it would look like in newer platforms. In Palm OS, and speaking of lean database apps, I am (comfortly) stuck with HandMark MobileDB. Very simple and effective, albeit surely not for all the e-tastes (so to speak).

Final note: We have chargers everywhere at our home and in my office and in our cars (we can charge 3 at a time in our cars). But one of the best things I do, no matter which phone I’m carrying is to just carry an extra battery with me. I don’t understand all these things about killing apps and I’ve read that sometimes they still come back on and that takes more juice than just leaving them on. But there has never been a day that I will go through more than 2 batteries – no matter how much I’ve used the device. There are many places online where you can get backup batteries at a good price.

Essentially, Scott, these killing-apps apps are intended to close down apps that can be left working in the background. Misdemeanors that come along a multi-tasking capability. In Palm OS it doesn't happen cause this OS doesn't have multi-tasking (the more limited capability to execute more than one digital task is solved under other scope called multi-threading). That said, if your geek stamina doesn't drive you in that direction, just do as you already do, chargers and batteries

[tbessie]

Just a quick note to hal (tho' I'll respond to the whole post later) - I wrote the Java app just to compare 2 files, 1 full of vCards exported from my Android phone, and 1 full of vCards exported from Palm Desktop. This is to deal with the discrepancies between the two due to my updating records on the phone but not on my Palm or Palm Desktop, because I can't do a 2-way sync between Android and Palm Desktop... it is POSSIBLE (because I bought CompanionLink), but it doesn't sync properly (no multiple numbers of the same type, etc. as mentioned).

Yes, being a Java programmer has its benefits. :-)

Anyway, after I fix the phone/Palm discrepancies in Palm Desktop, I will do a 1-way sync from Palm Desktop to Outlook using CompanionLink. I *believe* it will do a good job of it, although I'm still not sure how it will handle the multiple-numbers-of-the-same-type problem. I'll see. I may have to hand-copy some records over. And the comparing of data, record-for-record, by hand, will be the tedious part... it's too bad I don't trust CompanionLink to do the job the way I expect. But I'll report back here how it went.

Also, I tried SplashShopper... didn't love it, I'm afraid to say. I've tried all the top list-making programs for Android, and NONE of them worked the way I wanted. Basically, I want ListPro for Palm, but for Android.

If I get motivated enough, I might write my own Android app to handle my lists. I've written enough GWT (Google Web Toolkit) and Swing code so that it might not be too difficult to write a decent Android app.

- Tim

[Hook]

On Companion Link and DJO, I find the best result comes from completely ignoring the Android DBs. I don't sync with them at all. I don't know Palm Desktop, but Outlook syncs pretty cleanly, two way, with DJO. I don't trust the sync with the Android Dbs, especially the Calendar one.

The only disadvantage of this is that I can't use calendar widgets, but I have found that actually a surprisingly easy transition. I left my old Gmail contacts in the Android contacts database for caller ID but I can initiate calls from DJO.

I find from reading their forums that different sync methods have different success rates for different people and I suspect this has as much to do with differences in phones as anything. I had problems with the USB sync (my phone is a little finnicky in remounting the SD card after you break the USB connection and Gingerbread seemed to make that worse) and wifi sync (my router keeps giving my phone a different IP. I've fount hosted OTA sync to be wonderful and flawless and I can do it anywhere. Data is encrypted and not hosted. It does sit on a server until you complete the sync, but there is no web interface for it and it remains encrypted and is not retained past the sync.

Just what works for me. YMMV. I am very happy with this setup.