Former Palm users -- will we find a home with Android?

[r0k]

Well, if you feel really at home with Palm, then what is making you want to switch? There are plenty of replacement legacy devices out there that can be used with Verizon.

If I was going to opt to switch to another platform, I would be looking at either Blackberry or Symbian personally, since they are the only ones (currently) moving in a less clouded more freedom respecting way.
Google, unfortunately, despite the talk about open source, is trying to monopolize there own private cloud.
But don't get me started on that track .

Freedom respecting? Blackberry? Hmmm.... I guess I'd say the least freedom respecting platform out right now is iOS. But I'd have to put BB OS at a close second due to the concessions RIM has made to enterprise IT demands.


I would be more inclined to put Android and Symbian on a par wrt freedom. Perhaps you mean having to put your data in google's server is too restrictive. Too late for me. I already crossed that bridge. The master copy of my stuff lives in MobileMe but all my contacts got migrated to google some time ago. I picked iOS based on my preference, not an aversion to letting google have a peek at my data. Perhaps webOS would be more freedom respecting. It allows you to pick your cloud and it doesn't have to be google.

I dug my heels in and resisted the cloud for some time but wireless sync is something I did without after my Palm TX until I got an iPod Touch. Wireless sync is so nice it is worth having my data live in some cloud somewhere. If you are worried, I suggest you create a cryptic name for your gmail account as well as create a silly long password. Then at least only you and google can read your contacts.

[SyncRaven]

Perhaps you mean having to put your data in google's server is too restrictive.

Yep basically. Google and the other tech giants are moving into a direction in which data and eventually the whole application environment will be controlled remotely from their servers. In the case of google, the "system" might be built using open source, but because you have no real control over it locally, like real open source code, it is pretty much putting a fake open source stamp on it.
I'm sure RIM is going to jump on the bandwagon eventually but as of right now all RIM devices work on a pre-clouded mentality really.
The Symbian foundation actually wrote me back telling me they have no plans to go the same route - we'll see if they keep their word .
I totally see the practical uses of the cloud - I just think those practical reasons are being used to hoodwink people for other motives.
Let's just say I agree with Richard Stallman mostly...Cloud computing is a trap, warns GNU founder | Technology | guardian.co.uk

[Hook]

Leaving aside the open source argument for the moment (it is the same argument it has always been, it doesn't change in the cloud computing context), the criticisms apply to keeping your data only in the cloud. Of course that's crazy. And of course people do it, people do lots of crazy things, even without computers. However, there is no reason to.

Other people servers become a way station that can keep all of my local devices using the same data. It is a tremendous help, but if Google's servers disappeared tomorrow, I would still have all my data. All of it is local in multiple places.

[SyncRaven]

the criticisms apply to keeping your data only in the cloud. Of course that's crazy. And of course people do it, people do lots of crazy things, even without computers. However, there is no reason to.

What is crazy today will become the norm tomorrow. I remember when everyone swore they would stick with DOS instead of adopting those crazy GUI things like windows, or people swearing they would stick with Netscape even though Internet Explorer was coming pre bundled.
Technology history has pretty much proven that resolve melts with constant exposure to a thing.. and I think a fully clouded non local copy is the future based on that. Supporting google or microsoft or apple right now is pretty much signing up for a fully clouded tomorrow in which you have very little control. I don't have a problem with the practical functionality really - it has advantages, and I understand if people want to go that way. But, I just wouldn't personally recommend it.

[r0k]

Yep basically. Google and the other tech giants are moving into a direction in which data and eventually the whole application environment will be controlled remotely from their servers. In the case of google, the "system" might be built using open source, but because you have no real control over it locally, like real open source code, it is pretty much putting a fake open source stamp on it.
I'm sure RIM is going to jump on the bandwagon eventually but as of right now all RIM devices work on a pre-clouded mentality really.
The Symbian foundation actually wrote me back telling me they have no plans to go the same route - we'll see if they keep their word .
I totally see the practical uses of the cloud - I just think those practical reasons are being used to hoodwink people for other motives.
Let's just say I agree with Richard Stallman mostly...Cloud computing is a trap, warns GNU founder | Technology | guardian.co.uk

I would say RIM was the author of the first cloud (or at least one of the very first clouds). Before google was number one for search, RIM was hosting every email message for every person who was actively using their blackberry on RIM owned servers. BIS and some BES servers are hosted on RIM's machines. This means whoever your email account is with, be it hotmail or gmail, your data must pass through RIM's servers to make it to your blackberry device. Sure RIM hasn't tried to absorb your address book data onto their servers but they do offer the infrastructure to their BES (enterprise) customers to build their own clouds and back up data wirelessly.

Leaving aside the open source argument for the moment (it is the same argument it has always been, it doesn't change in the cloud computing context), the criticisms apply to keeping your data only in the cloud. Of course that's crazy. And of course people do it, people do lots of crazy things, even without computers. However, there is no reason to.

Other people servers become a way station that can keep all of my local devices using the same data. It is a tremendous help, but if Google's servers disappeared tomorrow, I would still have all my data. All of it is local in multiple places.

Winner!!!! We have a winner! This is exactly how I use the cloud. It is a way station to keep my data not only synced but "off site backed up". If Apple and Google were hit by the mega worm tomorrow, all my data would be safely on my machines. If my house were struck by an asteroid tomorrow, all my data would be safely backed up on several clouds. To me it seems foolhardy not to take advantage of the cloud as a way to back data up as well as move it around.

What is crazy today will become the norm tomorrow. I remember when everyone swore they would stick with DOS instead of adopting those crazy GUI things like windows, or people swearing they would stick with Netscape even though Internet Explorer was coming pre bundled.
Technology history has pretty much proven that resolve melts with constant exposure to a thing.. and I think a fully clouded non local copy is the future based on that. Supporting google or microsoft or apple right now is pretty much signing up for a fully clouded tomorrow in which you have very little control. I don't have a problem with the practical functionality really - it has advantages, and I understand if people want to go that way. But, I just wouldn't personally recommend it.

Competition is Always Good
I don't think it's crazy to use the cloud. Perhaps a few users do but I doubt that feeling is mainstream. It would seem your prediction has already come to pass, but as long as there is competition there is nothing to fear.

As long as there are more than a handful of providers out there, you have the same control any customer has. You can take your business to another provider with a different business model. I have already done this when I walked away from google after their refusal to help me after being locked out of 2 google accounts and I went to Apple. I refuse to advertise any me.com email for myself so if I have a falling out with Apple I can go over to Yahoo or something else. It is lack of competition that leads to loss of control, not any particular technology. This is something that actually deterred me from getting an Android device. Having had to walk away from gmail once, I was horrified at the prospect I could have a problem with access to my gmail account and lose the ability to use my phone at the same time and have nobody to call (who could do anything about it). And no the manufacturer of the phone couldn't help with a gmail account issue nor could a carrier. I should add that google has added account recovery methods since I had my problem but one of them involves getting an SMS message. I wonder if SMS works on an Android phone when the google account it is locked to is not accessible by its owner? I decided I never want to have to find out.

We Have All Been Using the Cloud For Years - Get Over It
I don't fully understand this objection to having data on somebody else's servers. Today, when you receive an email message, it has passed through google's and microsoft's and possibly your isp's servers. They aren't supposed to "save a copy" but you don't really have any way to enforce that now, do you?

Keep a Local Copy (duh)
As Hook said above, the best way to "defend ourselves" against the sudden disappearance of any particular cloud is to keep a copy of our stuff locally. When I had trouble with my gmail account about a year and a half ago, I went and opened an account with one of their competitors and once I had google working again I imported everything so I had two copies. At one point I had four but now I have three. Scheduleworld dumped my account without warning after I'd used them when I was having trouble making sync work between my Mac and my old BB 8830. Boy am I glad I didn't depend on that copy for anything. Today I realize I no longer need three so I'm going to actually blow away one of my cloud accounts at one of my providers at some point.

Use a Private Data Safe
Most providers claim to delete everything when you leave. Again this is a matter of trust. Anything that is really personal such as numbers that could be used for identity theft really belongs in an encrypted envelope like 1password, splashid, yaps and the like.

Cloud Risk by Data Category
As for your friend's contact info, all anybody needs to know how to do is read email headers and they get most of that. Lastly we come to calendar and todos. If somebody hacks into your calendar, I suppose they can find out you are at a wedding rehearsal or on vacation and go break into your house or run up your credit card while they know you are away from your computer and phone.

[Hook]

Poor Paula.

We probably should wait for her to come back and make sure her questions get answered before we continue on this tangent.

[r0k]

< snickering and maniacal laughter can be heard near r0k's computer as he ponders the possibility he might have managed to drag yet another thread to ...

[cue shower scene psycho music]

OFF TOPIC >

I thought about putting a pretty little bow on the end of my last post by somehow tying it back to whether Android could work as an upgrade path for Palm users but I figured we are already so far out here on this cloud tangent I needn't bother because just about anybody coming from Palm is dealing with usb based sync and facing the cloud question for the first time.

A friend just stopped by my desk to ask about usb cable sync using ActiveSync. I asked him if he wanted a buggy whip while we were at it. I realized cable sync was a bad thing after the first wifi sync of my TX. I gnashed my teeth every time I had to USB sync my Blackberry to my Mac and I was so happy to put that (Blackberry Desktop/Missing Sync/iSync) nightmare behind me (almost exactly one month ago). If it takes a cloud to get rid of the cable, so be it and I don't feel too concerned about us dragging this thread so far off into the clouds. Here kitty kitty kitty, I have a nice little USB cable leash for ya...

[SyncRaven]

Competition is Always Good
We Have All Been Using the Cloud For Years - Get Over It

That's ok - keep swallowing the blue pill there Neo .
Anyways, back to OP - I would recommend staying with Palm devices unless you have a need to change personally, unless I missed it (which is entirely possible), it seems to me like you really don't want to change you just think maybe you should.

[Hook]

My advice would be as follows.

If you really love your Palms and you have the possibility to continue with them and want to do that, go for it and just get a phone phone.

If you want to get a Smartphone you can use as a PDA, Android is a good choice. You will find all the apps you need including Grafitti and Android is a good Palm replacement. However, Android is different than Palm OS and not all of it is better (though it is maturing quickly), but there are no Palm OS options on this path.

Change is hard. It is even harder if you insist that the change be just like what you knew. You do have to open yourself to doing things differently, and yes, not always because the new ways are better, but because it is going to be more frustrating if you don't.

I really loved my TX. Now, I realy love my Nexus One and would never go back. I don't feel like I have compromised. I'm genuinely as happy as I ever was with my TX although it took me awhile to get there.

However, that's just me. I assume Verizon has a grace period during which you can see how happy you are.

[abenn]

I believe HTC Sync requires Sense UI, which the Nexus One doesn't have. I'm actually grateful. I much prefer the Android interface tweaked with widgets. ...

Thanks, Hook. I don't know about the technicalities, but HTC Sync came with my phone, so I use it.